Reverse the Decision on Trees and Fertilizer Pumps...

[Vaperius]

I'd like to hear more on this about pumps, too.

How is pushing more people to hydroponics a good solution to fert pumps? How is nerfing pumps to the point that they are skipped for hydroponics a viable solution to fert pumps?

Is it understood that this is what is happening?

Well Hydroponics have a few disadvantages; first off they take up valuable amounts of power, space and metal. Space being the most finite, and no don't use Ludicrous maps as a counter argument, that isn't a viable option for every player. Metal isn't really non-object in places where it is used for everything from the walls to the heater/cooler; we are talking about wood deprived areas for this argument of course, so I digress. Then the power being the notable one, in soil deprived areas where temperature is a serious problem, any serious devil-strand operation is fraught with difficulty as is when it comes to protecting it from raids/fire/animals and getting a worthwhile harvest grown to maturity. Devil strand is completely non-viable with hydroponics as a reliable income source. Granted I suppose this is where you claim this is part of the additional challenge of the Environments, but again, nerfing fertilizer pumps would be just making it more expensive to research, a little more to build, and actually require fertilizer; making it a reliable alternative to but not just as good as hydroponics.

[Kegereneku]

I only used Fertilizer pump once on a desert in the first place, hydroponic was to grow things fast in case of emergency but I only use them for Devilstrand (hoping to never face that event).

The main thing this will change for me is make securing food source/food type an higher priority over the rest. (you got to care about food before Art)

All in all I believe Tynan know what he is doing and will offer balanced solution later.

[Vaperius]

I only used Fertilizer pump once on a desert in the first place, hydroponic was to grow things fast in case of emergency but I only use them for Devilstrand (hoping to never face that event).

The main thing this will change for me is make securing food source/food type an higher priority over the rest. (you got to care about food before Art)

All in all I believe Tynan know what he is doing and will offer balanced solution later.

I'd hope he would but from what I understand of his opinion of fertilizer pumps and tree farming there is a real need to push forward a discussion to inquire to a new and balanced form of these features as it unlikely he will do so unprompted. In any case; "Incident Trolling" is quite possibly the most annoying thing as there is little you can do about it; it especially annoying that solar flares affect electrical systems; which they would only do so initially, solar flares would primarily affect electronics.

Then there is the blown fuse thing which there shouldn't have happen unless you fail to install "load balancers"

[Mathenaut]

Hydroponics have disadvantages, but so do fertilizer pumps and farming in general.

What is it, explicitly, about fert pumps that is wildly unbalancing? How? In what context? Not that I have a horse in this race, but the lack of answers to those questions is irksome to me.

[Kegereneku]

Myself I would consider the whole "Make ANY soil farmable using energy" to be quite ambiance breaking, plus how it facilitate walled in base.
However I hoped to be able to plant tree for decoration.

I don't think the problem come from removing them, it come from the wait before Tynan create an alternative of make their loss negligible.

[RemingtonRyder]

If I had to nail it down exactly, the problem is that fertilizer pumps change the terrain type from barren to 100% fertile.

No intermediate stages, no cap on what can be achieved through artificial means, and no need to integrate it with the rest of the ecosystem i.e. you should need to expand from existing soil because that's where the existing soil organisms live.

[Argon]

If I had to nail it down exactly, the problem is that fertilizer pumps change the terrain type from barren to 100% fertile.

No intermediate stages, no cap on what can be achieved through artificial means, and no need to integrate it with the rest of the ecosystem i.e. you should need to expand from existing soil because that's where the existing soil organisms live.

Yes, and to make matters even more unbalanced it consumes no items in the process.

-Argon

[Vaperius]

If I had to nail it down exactly, the problem is that fertilizer pumps change the terrain type from barren to 100% fertile.

No intermediate stages, no cap on what can be achieved through artificial means, and no need to integrate it with the rest of the ecosystem i.e. you should need to expand from existing soil because that's where the existing soil organisms live.

Yes, and to make matters even more unbalanced it consumes no items in the process.

-Argon

Hope it is okay to breathe some life back into this thread.

I really do want to promote depth and growth of the features discussed in this thread.

Fertilizer Pumps and Tree Planting.

Fertilizer Pumps need to be rebalanced; they need to require resources to use, more in-depth research, and they can not just terraform barren stone and land; should have to manually break up rock first to start terraforming.

Tree Planting; well we discussed back on forth on the why's and why not's of it so for recap

Tree Planting is seen on one side as an unnecessary game breaking feature; on the other side its a essentially but unbalanced feature that should be fixed and balanced instead of out right removed

Suggestions for this range from research to longer growth times and such...


Sooo basically... "save the tree...saplings?"

Soo...yeah hope this is alright to recap on

[RemingtonRyder]

The net effect of not having tree planting is this:

If you're going to build using wood, you need to locate your base near naturally-growing trees.
You now have an interest in fighting forest fires before they spread out of control.
You are more likely to have occasional wood shortages.
You may need to trade for wood.

The net effect of allowing worktables to use stuff instead of just wood is that you need far less wood to get a base up and running (but you may need to use more steel).

Hopefully providing this insight into the next build alleviates your concerns.

[Turps]

Not voting the poll cuz I don't understand it. But don't want to see trees go and do miss the fertilizer pump.
I am up for new ways and ideas in the game so not totally spewing about it. Maybe make trees just harvestable after 1 year in game with not much gain and full gain after 2 years. I do like to plant them around the base cuz it adds beauty and looks good (for pawns and me). Creatively adding trees around the base fun. If not maybe add more shrubs n bushes (that last a while) to add beauty.
I'd like to see fertilizer pumps come back because growing devilstrand in hyrdoponics is just depressing with the solar flares. It also helps building base entrances through marshes to set up epic defences. If it is gone than so be it but would like to see some form of terra forming to replace it, if not for farming but just to work with marshes. We are talking fairly low tec dealing with marshes or lakes n ponds but if it messes with the game to much then no probs

[Turps]

Found it! Not really a fan of killboxes but have had a few in the past, here is one from A8. Only possible with the good old fashion fertilizer pump. Across a marsh and nobody runs through the water. I'd like to see some form of terra forming with marshes so this and other stuff is possible. If its gone from farming then no worries. Laters

[Yas]

I dont get the problem. Trees and fertilizer always been fine for me. I'd say: If its overpowered for you, just dont use it?! But please give it back to those essentials back for those players who need it (desperatly!). Pretty pleeeease.

The biggest advantage of RimWorld is that it is a Simulation and it let u play like _u_ want. If I want Killboxes because Im unable und too stupid to play without, let me, please. Its me and my fun about the game. Same for fertilizer pump and trees. If u dont have fun playing this way, great, everybody enjoys the game his / her own way.

Playing in tundra iceshelf needs some indoor farming (and dont say the h-word! Every 5 min they are out of power for some reason and food for the next 5 weeks just gone, cause it just despawns) and so I need some fertile floor inside.

And dont ask me why I play Tundra / Iceshelf only, I dont know, I just keep doing it. And pleeeease let me.

[Kelian]

I was actually wondering what happened to fertilizer pumps. I play almost exclusively on tundra and ice maps. Pumps would help me fertilize an interior space to grow things. I'm almost always resorting to cannibalism now a days with no crops. Hydroponics is not a viable large scale operation, is slow and my plants die a lot anytime power is cut. Adding to the starvation and frustration of my play through.

[Quasarrgames]

All fps do in my mind is spread a thin layer (like 20-30cm) of dirt over the existing floor. So i do think that they are not op should be added back in. Perhaps after further research an advanced pump could be made that creates rich soil or grinds up rock and turns it into soil.

Also, while we're on the topic of growing, hydroponics are very overpriced, no?

[Toggle]

Nah, they don't seem overpriced to me. Sun lamps are the only problem I have with them, they require so much energy, but it's capable to run em. This is not applying to ice sheets, as I don't play on em so I have no idea.