Suggestions request: Ways to fulfill a "joy" need

[Specialist290]

Something that seems like it would go hand-in-hand with this:  Giving pawns preferences as to favorite and least favorite consumables, with them preferring to eat meals made with that particular ingredient or avoiding them unless no other options are available, respectively.

For instance:
* One colonist just loves strawberries.  If they haven't eaten anything with strawberries for a certain amount of time, they take a minor negative thought.
* Another colonist simply cannot stand potatoes and takes a minor negative thought if they're made to eat a potato-based meal. 

I'll leave whether or not multiple meals stack as a matter for Tynan to weigh, but at the very least, the expiration date for the thought should be based on the last time the meal was eaten.

[Tynan]

stuff

Let's please keep it on topic, thanks.

[Vaperius]

I'm considering adding a "joy" need to colonists' psychologies. Joy represents people�s need for escapism, to not face problems all the time, to feel pleasure sometimes in life.

Here are some rough ideas for ways colonists can fulfil it:

Alcohol/drugs
Horseshoe game
Darts
Chess
Melee combat dummy
Video game console (purchasable)
Table (chat and drink)
Going for a run
Consume special fun luxury items (what? Chocolate?)
Build a snowman
From using passion skills

Can you think of any others to add to the list? Please, bombard the thread with ideas!

Honestly Yes. However; shouldn't be just a meter like hunger/rest

People have Preferences; Therefore Pawns have preferences. Their story and traits should determine what Joy Filling actions effect them and which ones effect them the most.

Also in terms of luxury items; add baked goods;chocolate, sugar cane etc; having luxury furniture (add it as something that requires wood and cloth/leather)

[Tynan]

Thanks Vap, but please don't spam multiple posts in a row, especially with a big repeated quote. ( Rule 10: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=122.0 )

[RemingtonRyder]

• Comparing scars. (Inspired by Lethal Weapon 3)
• Chatting around a campfire.
• Carving something into tree bark.
• Watching a solar eclipse/aurora.
• Smelling flowers.
• Listening to new tales from friendly visitors.
• Peering at reflection in water.
• Watching a puppet show.

[Cazakatari]

This sounds GREAT!  A fleshed out implementation of what ''high/low expectations'' is trying to accomplish.  If you do put this in (and I REALLY hope you do), we'll need a good system on understanding what and how often they engage in their "joy."

I'll disagree with Vaperius and say that I think the most elegant way would be another meter like hunger/rest. My assumption is that it'll be easier for you since the framework of hunger/rest is already there.  Besides, without a meter to gauge where a colonist is on their "joy," I can't see the system being meaningful without also being frustrating due to the inability to directly see how long a colonist can be denied ''joy'' until taking a penalty.

I think we should be able to set for each pawn how often they seek out their ''joy'' activity.  Yeah it can be debilitating if you haven't had any free time for a month, but if there's an emergency for a few days to a week most people just take it in stride.  I hope the system would be that forgiving

Since you mentioned melee dummy, I'm excited at the prospect having a reliable way to gradually level/maintain some skills. At moment some can only be done via micromanagement (such as melee/shooting), so I'll recommend a general ''combat dummy'' that those who choose to use it can either melee or shoot.  This way in a lull we could encourage our melee/gun loving pawns to spend a large amount of time on the range.

While I don't think we should have complete control over what they choose to do, I think some measure of control would be nice.  I can see a situation where you have a colonist that has a burning passion for both Social and shooting, and you want him socializing but he shoots all the time instead or vice versa.  Obviously the drunks would be harder to manage

Again I LOVE this idea because it will patch many of the holes I feel when playing currently.  Sorry if you just wanted specific activities but theorizing about all this was too much fun for me

[ja7833]

COLLECTIVE
*Sex - A lot of games do it, the sims do it, even bees do it, so let them faaall in love. Really, is the idea of people carnally touching each other so repulsive?

I think adding sex or more specifically adding "romance" and the ability for colonists to be a couple would add another level of depth to the game:

Positive:
Sharing a room now adds happiness (if a couple)

Negative:
Spouse dies; long-term unhappiness

Mixed:
Increased chance for positive social interaction
Increased chance for negative social interaction
Required for a couple to be "created"

• Larger room/room of a certain size
• Royal bed
• sleeping spot (very bad social interaction: someone sleeps on the "sofa" and the additional negative happiness for sleeping on the ground)

[Mathenaut]

I'm not so sure if adding another need to micromanage will terribly enhance things.

I do like the idea of more ways/means of enhancing mood, as that would add alot of flexibility to how you manage your colonists and the design of your base.

The idea of having an alcoholic for the colony is fun, but even someone piss-ass drunk can still pick up a rifle or find cover. The first time I had a binging colonist that couldn't get his shit together was the last time I had a binging colonist.

[daft73]

I like the Idea of a common room. Where the colonists can relax, drink, play pool, darts, pinball ect. There could be a weight room, do you even lift ... Maybe the common room itself would give the buff, and the activites are just eye-candy.
Sporting activities like Hunting could also be worked in.

[Mathenaut]

I like the Idea of a common room. Where the colonists can relax, drink, play pool, darts, pinball ect. There could be a weight room, do you even lift ... Maybe the common room itself would give the buff, and the activites are just eye-candy.
Sporting activities like Hunting could also be worked in.

This makes the game lean toward a sims/dungeonkeeper/evil genius sort of direction, for better and worse (I'm ambivalent).

Having a 'rec room' set up with mood-boosting stuff could prompt colonists with low mood (not due to starving/sleeping) to retreat there in order to stave off a mental break.

This would be interesting, as doing things like selling off/executing prisoners or living off of nutripaste would see more colonists burning idle time there.

[Tynan]

I'm not so sure if adding another need to micromanage will terribly enhance things.

I do like the idea of more ways/means of enhancing mood, as that would add alot of flexibility to how you manage your colonists and the design of your base.

The idea of having an alcoholic for the colony is fun, but even someone piss-ass drunk can still pick up a rifle or find cover. The first time I had a binging colonist that couldn't get his shit together was the last time I had a binging colonist.

Hoping to avoid micromanagement. It's not like you can assign people leisure activities - all you do is build/produce things that the colonists can use to make themselves happy. Ideally it'll be very low-effort on the part of the player because you don't manage/assign peoples' fun the way you manage/assign their work.

It will be another bar like hunger or rest (or space or beauty); I've refactored and centralized the needs system to support these kinds of "bars" easily and cleanly in a single central tab.

And yeah, re: the alcoholics, I'm thinking I'll be able to rework it so that boozer colonists just drink a lot all the time and don't actually become technically broken and un-draftable.

Anyway, some great ideas here! I appreciate all the ongoing feedback.

[Johnny Masters]

Hoping to avoid micromanagement. It's not like you can assign people leisure activities - all you do is build/produce things that the colonists can use to make themselves happy. Ideally it'll be very low-effort on the part of the player because you don't manage/assign peoples' fun the way you manage/assign their work.

-Yeah, the idea is that in a basic level you don't have to micromanage it, but like games that have such mechanic a "force action" would come very in handy. That is: They pursue their own joy fulfillment based on what you have available for them, but say you just had a huge invasion and you want everyone to get hammered: You could micro everyone into drinking a few rounds, or having a couple have some alone time. That is, giving the option for the player to control - if so wishes - how he/she wants their story to unfold.

-Every pawn should have a hidden "desire" level for every possible joy activity, so they randomize and rotate between them in an apparent organic way. So Joe could have like a 1,2% chance of working out, 0,5% of daydreaming, 1,1% of looking for a chat and 5% to eat a sandwich, and so on and on...

This makes the game lean toward a sims/dungeonkeeper/evil genius sort of direction, for better and worse (I'm ambivalent).

-These games are gold on what they do, i don't see how leaning towards them could be worse. Rimworld has a lot to learn from these games and better yet, the opportunity to enhance upon them.

-I like the idea of a common/rec room, but the modular characteristic of RW allows for, well, modular recreation. So while we could very well decide to build a rec room with loads of options for them to stay and chill, there should be a lot of options for non-com rooms aswell.

-So, something like compared comfort could be factored in on how they want to pursue joy. ex.: A pawn might like to have strolls and watch birds/local fauna, but since its freezing outside, the fact that you have a room with a nice sum of joy "points", a nice temperature and the company of your fellow friends, will factor in them deciding this time to spend their time in that room instead of going outside.

[Mathenaut]

Hoping to avoid micromanagement. It's not like you can assign people leisure activities - all you do is build/produce things that the colonists can use to make themselves happy. Ideally it'll be very low-effort on the part of the player because you don't manage/assign peoples' fun the way you manage/assign their work.

It will be another bar like hunger or rest (or space or beauty); I've refactored and centralized the needs system to support these kinds of "bars" easily and cleanly in a single central tab.

And yeah, re: the alcoholics, I'm thinking I'll be able to rework it so that boozer colonists just drink a lot all the time and don't actually become technically broken and un-draftable.

Anyway, some great ideas here! I appreciate all the ongoing feedback.

Well, I understand the quirk and the direction you're going in, so I don't want to knock it completely.

It's just that the penalties for heavy drinking are already in place (there's a status debuff for getting drunk), so it's already a problem. Being broken ontop of that tips the bar from 'wonky quirk/liability' to 'practically useless'.

Expanding on this point, I'd like to argue that it would be better to expand the current mood system instead of adding another bar to manage and more things to juggle. I would really like to see colonists taking measures to avoid breaking (like drinking!) just like they try to avoid starving and exhaustion.

Colonists taking severe or sudden damage to their mood can default to leisure, just like with food and rest. While drinking is a fast and easy way to ease stress, you could introduce other leisure for colonist to recover with (maybe more time consuming without the debuff) and traits associated with personal preferences (since we already have traits that provide mood bonuses for certain activities).

As you are wanting, this is mostly passive and non-invasive. Low-effort for people who don't want to deal with it and rewarding for people who make the extra effort.

[kingtyris]

Maybe certain 'joy' activities could have a cooldown, reducing a pawns satisfaction if done repeatedly over a given period. Ie, Playing the same videogame 5 times every day would stop being fun after a while, but would become fun again if you put it down for a time and returned to it later. This would incentivize creating a variety of leisure stations for your pawns to enjoy.

Also, maybe each leisure station could tie into a certain skill, and the pawn recieves a higher joy buff if the station is related to a skill they already have a passion for, Ie Maker likes crafting, so the Ship-in-a-bottle leisure station fills him with utmost joy, and he takes longer to grow tired of it.

As for specific ideas,

Maybe decorations can be made lowest-priority constructions, and pawns with a passion for construction will construct decorations as a leisure activity, since beautifying the colony would seem more relaxing to them than work like. Same with maintaining flowers for growers. Also, artwork for pawns with a passion for art would be a fulfilling activity.

Workout stations for pawns with a passion for melee would seem logical.

[Argon]

I'm feeling medieval:

        Tournament melees (trains melee)
        Boxing (trains melee)
        Jousting (trains melee)
        Gambling (trains social)
        Archery competition (trains shooting)
        Bearbaiting


-Argon