Thoughts on Alpha 10?

[Matthiasagreen]

Since I am at work and don't feel like working, I am sitting here refreshing the page waiting for people to start posting their thoughts on the new update, or at least the release notes of it.. Since everyone either doesn't know about it yet or is out playing it, I am not getting a lot yet. Since I am impatient, I will just ask: What do you all think?

[Fernbhoy]

patch notes are here if you want a read of them

https://ludeon.com/blog/2015/04/rimworld-alpha-10-joy-system-released/

[Matthiasagreen]

patch notes are here if you want a read of them

https://ludeon.com/blog/2015/04/rimworld-alpha-10-joy-system-released/

Yeah, I saw them, thanks. I get a little addicted on release days. I had meant I was hoping to hear people's thoughts on the release notes.

[ardentpause]

Initial thoughts:

1) Joy, nice. I love it. Also, new furniture. Pretty cool. I wish there was an emotion benefit to having better gear, including nicer quality clothes, and nicer materials.

2) Timetable is awesome. I'm super happy to have it.

3) Outfit management is really great. Seriously, really, really great. But I'm a bit frustrated that there is no way to repair anything ever. I should be able to maintain my clothes, and many weapons, instead of crafting or buying brand new ones all the time. It's very frustrating, especially since the traders rarely have the better weapons to sell.

4) Preventing trees from being grow-able is a bit annoying. The Update to 9 made traders more price aggressive, and now there are no renewable building options. On top of that, wild plants are even slower, so, why not just get rid of wood entirely? How is it different from stone, or steel?

5) Setting skill levels and material restrictions on bills is a really good idea. Super useful. Also, the quality restrictions on zones. Again, super useful. Great Idea.

6) Ok, door locking switches is a real problem. This is one of those ideas that seems cool at first, but doesn't really add anything, and actually hurts gameplay. The only reason to lock doors in the first place is because colonists will just randomly go hunting in the middle of an attack, and get themselves killed. It's an AI problem that was at least manageable by locking the colony doors, and is now even worse.

And, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay. When it was power switching, it at least added a level of power management to the game so you couldn't simply power on/off turrets mid battle. I might not like it, but I can appreciate the added depth. This isn't doing that. It just forces you to micromanage the colonists even more to prevent them from doing things that they shouldn't be trying in the first place. Really, there needs to be a way to keep colonists inside a defense region during attacks, and pathing AI to keep civilians away from enemies, but that's likely a lot of work.

At least add in a research option to develop remote locking doors.

Mostly this is really great. But the door thing is really frustrating, almost to the point where I want to go back to the previous version. The wood thing is a bit annoying too.

-ArdentPause

[Fernbhoy]

Wood grows back though, steel and stone don't.

End of the day, Rimworld isn't design for HUGE colonies, it's about a group of survivors and tells a story of their escape/survival. It's open ended so many things can happen, but that's not it's core gameplay. If anything the wood thing helps slow the pace of the game down, You need to split your focus on gathering wood or have a winter where you don't expand and gathering food for the winter.

Don't think  many people is iceland build houses for new people while it's -20 degrees in the middle of a food crisis.

[Mystic]

So far, a few strange things have cropped up, and I am still trying to get my head around whether they are bugs or just features I don't understand yet.

However, one minor but annoying visual "bug" in A10 I am already certain of is the fact that, when editing a stockpile's valid items in A10, many of the line items in that popup don't line up very accurately with the corresponding checkmarks/X's on the right.  Primarily this is true of the "leaf nodes" in that popup (i.e., the items with no children).  I have to look kind of close to be able to match up a checkbox with its text now, because of this misalignment.  (This is on the Mac version ... I can't speak for the Windows version.)

[stefanstr]

6) Ok, door locking switches is a real problem. This is one of those ideas that seems cool at first, but doesn't really add anything, and actually hurts gameplay. The only reason to lock doors in the first place is because colonists will just randomly go hunting in the middle of an attack, and get themselves killed. It's an AI problem that was at least manageable by locking the colony doors, and is now even worse.

I haven't gotten a chance to play yet and I am really unhappy to read this. I used door locking all the time to keep colonists out of harm. I hope Tynan changes this back.

[Numar]

6) Ok, door locking switches is a real problem. This is one of those ideas that seems cool at first, but doesn't really add anything, and actually hurts gameplay. The only reason to lock doors in the first place is because colonists will just randomly go hunting in the middle of an attack, and get themselves killed. It's an AI problem that was at least manageable by locking the colony doors, and is now even worse.

I haven't gotten a chance to play yet and I am really unhappy to read this. I used door locking all the time to keep colonists out of harm. I hope Tynan changes this back.

Seems like it's time for a central command console - e.g. deactivate the switch for the outer wall and a colonist will go to the command console and turn it off.
After all, the power switches are all connected via power lines. I can't imagine the colony having solar power plants, but not being able to create a command console.

[stefanstr]

6) Ok, door locking switches is a real problem. This is one of those ideas that seems cool at first, but doesn't really add anything, and actually hurts gameplay. The only reason to lock doors in the first place is because colonists will just randomly go hunting in the middle of an attack, and get themselves killed. It's an AI problem that was at least manageable by locking the colony doors, and is now even worse.

I haven't gotten a chance to play yet and I am really unhappy to read this. I used door locking all the time to keep colonists out of harm. I hope Tynan changes this back.

Seems like it's time for a central command console - e.g. deactivate the switch for the outer wall and a colonist will go to the command console and turn it off.
After all, the power switches are all connected via power lines. I can't imagine the colony having solar power plants, but not being able to create a command console.

But that's not the issue. The issue is that lockable doors were an essentially meta-level tool that helped to deal with AI deficiencies. For me, locking a door didn't mean "Joe goes and turns the key so no one can pass through." It meant: "the group decides it isn't safe to go through that door at this time."

This change really adds nothing to the game while lowering my level of control as a player. I would love to hear Tynan's rationale for it.

[DAOWAce]

6) Ok, door locking switches is a real problem. This is one of those ideas that seems cool at first, but doesn't really add anything, and actually hurts gameplay. The only reason to lock doors in the first place is because colonists will just randomly go hunting in the middle of an attack, and get themselves killed. It's an AI problem that was at least manageable by locking the colony doors, and is now even worse.

And, it doesn't add anything to the gameplay. When it was power switching, it at least added a level of power management to the game so you couldn't simply power on/off turrets mid battle. I might not like it, but I can appreciate the added depth. This isn't doing that. It just forces you to micromanage the colonists even more to prevent them from doing things that they shouldn't be trying in the first place. Really, there needs to be a way to keep colonists inside a defense region during attacks, and pathing AI to keep civilians away from enemies, but that's likely a lot of work.

I've been watching LPs of the game since Alpha 3, and even in Alpha 9 the AI doesn't seem to have changed and still does unbelievably stupid things. (like walking into 4 melee enemies to try and repair a turret)

But, alpha is alpha, right?  Get the core game done so you can work on AI properly.  Unfortunate side effect of that is that it's a global playable alpha that anyone, at any time, can play; after they've paid for it.  And there's the issue with developing features that affect AI; you can't leave it out until later because it's a huge playability issue and changes people's opinion of the game.

I've commented in Quill's videos that I hope there's some sort of friendly fire option to stop some of the stupid AI issues (walking in line of fire) or help the weird LoS mechanics (people get shot defending a base by their own turrets), but that only bandaids one issue.

Who knows, maybe there will be an AI sweep in Alpha 11, but as of now it looks like people have to micromanage even more, which really sucks.  Wonder how Quill's A10 videos will be..

[rtiger]

Not being able to grow wood is problematic. With that in place, there is no real renewable option for materials, especially on open maps. In the areas I tend to play in, nothing grows on its own, needing help from me, which complicates the issue further. Once you run out of the limited stone and steel you have, your left with no easy options when it comes to making money besides spuds by the ton.

[DustBust]

Overall, I enjoy Joy being added, it adds more depth, however, in the beginning of a game, there needs to be a buffer for Joy at the start of the colony, it pretty much negates the bonus you get and people start running thin on nerves before you get the basics up, its not impossible, just a bit harder than it used to be.

The clothing system is great, I do have one major concern with it though, I would prefer if I set a minimum standard, if there are no clothes in that standard, the colonist would still put on the next best item in the stockpile rather than stripping naked lol.

Trees are a must, especially is desolate levels where clothing is limited and you want a bit more of a challenge.

I would also like to see this get more geared towards long term play, mods currently add more playing time to the game in my opinion, its kind of fun seeing the AI slowly ramp up more and more enemies at you, feels like a unique tower defense rather than trying vanilla waiting for a too big of a drop of mechs to genocide my colony or most of it.

[UMK]

Most mods turned into their most stable state - 'not working'. But I've got a reason to officially declare my stuff depecated

[Dave-In-Texas]

Initial thoughts:
[... for brevity ... ]

Mostly this is really great. But the door thing is really frustrating, almost to the point where I want to go back to the previous version. The wood thing is a bit annoying too.

-ArdentPause

pretty much what he said except I fully expect modders to add the functionality back in for doors. seriously, locking doors is just one solution to the ai issues and a lazy one but its more convenient than drafting everyone for the entire fight

I find the pace of the vanilla game is a lot slower now and honestly a bit more boring.

[Covered in Weasels]

Not being able to grow wood is problematic. With that in place, there is no real renewable option for materials, especially on open maps. In the areas I tend to play in, nothing grows on its own, needing help from me, which complicates the issue further. Once you run out of the limited stone and steel you have, you're left with no easy options when it comes to making money besides spuds by the ton.

That's exactly the reason Tynan made the change. Playing in desert regions with few natural resources is supposed to be very difficult. You can't use the same strategies as you would on maps with more plentiful resources, you have to make do with very little luxuries.