How is the pacing in Alpha10d or later?

[ardentpause]

I usually play on Challenge or Extreme.

I think that the pacing early game is really nice. Late game, it gets really tedious. I think my biggest frustration with the late game is that I can have essentially won the game, but because the traders slow down so much, I can't actually get enough steel to build the cryopods. I'd also like to be able to outfit my guys with some good weapons and armor and bionics from the traders. It feels like I've already won the game, but the game is refusing to admit that I won. At this point it becomes tedious waiting.

This is especially true because I like to get my guys decked out in the best gear, and full bionics, before going to space. It's essentially impossible though. I haven't had a single game where it happened, not because I didn't have the money, but because there is no point in having money late game.

What I would really like to see, is an increase in the frequency of traders, and an increase in the number of glimmerworld level items carried (charge rifles, power armor, bionics, and pricey ship parts), but also a large increase in the COST of glimmerworld level items. Winning should still be very hard, not because I'm waiting, but because there is a lot left to do. I started modding my own game in this exact way, and I have to say, I enjoy it much, much more.

Also I modded my game to remove crop blights. They aren't really fun for me. Just tedious.

Another problem, is that bunkering (creating a wall around the colony) is just too effective. I would like to see enemies that attack the outer walls rather than go through the front door. I don't bunker any more, because it's just too easy on any setting, but setting personal challenges like this is very different from having them built into the game. 

Another good suggestion that I saw, was having strong looting parties that steal items from the map, but avoid combat unless provoked.

Wood as a renewable resource is super important, but I agree with your recent test builds that maybe it's a bit too easy. Aside from having enemies attack outer walls more (making cheap walls a real concern) I think you should increase the time it takes to plant trees even more. A lot more maybe. Also, it would be cool if pine trees took longer to grow, but grew at colder temperatures.

I'm picky about who joins my colony. I would like to be able to turn wanderers away. If I have to, I'll just continue to send them into the cold to die, but I'd rather not have to.

Bionics is a bit too powerful the way it is now. Especially for things like crafting, aiming, and doctoring. I love bionics, but when a level 1 doctor with bionic eyes instantly trumps a doctor with 20 skill, that's maybe too much. What would be really cool, is if you could go to level 30, but everything after level 20 was locked off until you had appropriate implants added. In other words, you can't become "Godlike" without Bionic parts, but you also have to learn to use your implants to make you better, not have it just be instant (except running speed maybe. That feels just right). With that said, there should be SOME instant improvement.

For some more brief notes, that are only partially about pacing:

Good:
Melee attackers. Oh man, those guys are scary, but in the best way.
Devilstrand. Takes so long to grow, but worth the time. Wouldn't mind some fences though.

Unsure:
Inferno Cannons. Triple Rocket Launchers. They feel very swingy. Either they fail miserably, or they are absolutely devastating.

Bad:
Vent's don't work. I would really like vents to work. Pretty please.
Flooring should be removable. I can get over it, but it's annoying when I can't expand my farm.


I hope that helps,
-ArdentPause

[Tynan]

Thanks a ton amul and ardent. I've read through and appreciate the detailed feedback. Very useful.

ardent - you should know that you can remove flooring in Alpha 11, so that's done at least. Also I'm currently busy tuning up the AI so hopefully they'll be smarter about defeating bunkering/killbox strategies in next build. I hope I can increase the challenge without adding more enemies, by just making them cleverer. Ideally killboxes will still be useful for certain kinds of attacks (animal waves, for example, and maybe mechanoids) so I'm hoping those tactics will also remain relevant. Because killboxing can be fun in a way.

[userfredle]

Thanks a ton amul and ardent. I've read through and appreciate the detailed feedback. Very useful.

ardent - you should know that you can remove flooring in Alpha 11, so that's done at least. Also I'm currently busy tuning up the AI so hopefully they'll be smarter about defeating bunkering/killbox strategies in next build. I hope I can increase the challenge without adding more enemies, by just making them cleverer. Ideally killboxes will still be useful for certain kinds of attacks (animal waves, for example, and maybe mechanoids) so I'm hoping those tactics will also remain relevant. Because killboxing can be fun in a way.

Bro tynan, killboxing isnt just useful for mechanoids its a MUST, Scythers can outrange any gun in the game besides snipers, they also out range turrets, Not to mention the Lethality of 2 shotting colonists in full power armor.

Maybe you could think about making scythers either do less damage, slower attack, or lower range, because currently they make killboxes a MUST late game for those of us who dont like to use them.

Thanks a bunch.

[Andy_Dandy]

After a few games on Tundra, Extreme, no mods, and large large map I feel ready to make a few comments here.

My 4 main impressions regarding pacing:

- I love how the pace is sloved down by the joy system, and that this systems have given us new hard choices that feels meaningfull for the game. This means game slows down, but in the same times gives you more to do and to think through. Good job.

- I love how my mountainbases get slowed down finally by adding -2 beauty to the rock walls. It's just perfectly sufficient to make an impact on mood that mathers. I'd love to see more done, like smoothed floors required for real flooring, removed/reduced smoothed floor beauty bonus, and rebalanced walk speeds and walk speed bonuses (100% first with "real" flooring").

- I feel food is too easy to come by at the tundra setting (and it's on Extreme Cassandra as well). Herds reapears too often and are too plentyfull, good growing soil is also in abundance. Food is never a challenge even on the coldest of tundras with no growing period.

- Prisoners are too easy to fast recruit now, in my opinion. Just start with a 5+ social skill lad, and you soon recruit these 30-80% chance prisoners even in the worst of dirty and crumpy prison cells. No real need for investing in great social skills or great prison conditions. I had 10 pop by September the first in my last tundra game. Started June the first. Had 2 colonists with 5-7 in social skills, and just sleeping spots in a very ugly and small prison cell. This is way too easy ( had to restart with 3 terrible social skill colonists to have a more challenging and fun game ).

NB! There is still a bug where scythers (that has crash landed) or siegers don't fire their guns properly when you send a long ranged colonist to take them down one by one. I see them fire at you, and they have the range for it, but the bullets never comes out of their guns. Makes killing raids of this kind unintended easier.

[amul]

Thanks a ton amul and ardent. I've read through and appreciate the detailed feedback. Very useful.

...defeating bunkering/killbox strategies in next build.....

Aww, thanks, T-man!

I see a lot of hate going on for kill boxes on the forum, but I think these guys can't see the forest for the trees. The problem isn't the strategy, it's the focus on the front door of your base. You had the right idea with alphabeavers. The problem isn't the completely legitimate, millennia old tactic of fortifying your base, the problem is confusing your base for the game. There's your base, then there's your turf (the rest of the map), and then there's your place in the world, and then the universe. Right now, the game is mostly focused on establishing and protecting your base, with the exception of the alphabeavers threat, which requires you to step out of your safe zone and deal with it.

[b0rsuk]

I just started a Randy Random 100% game in alpha10f.

Two raids when I was barely done constructing wooden sleeping room/eating room and a storehouse. My empath had a leg cut off, she was of little use before already (an Empath, after all; but also  Frail and Bad Back). I've installed a peg leg only to see she can't move at all.

I got two prisoners, fended another pirate and tribal attack, built two turrets, 3 solar panels and some batteries. I already had a solar flare and an eclipse. I need more turrets, a research room, those 2 pirates converted (16% chance). One of them is Triggerhappy + Too Smart, and a passion for guns I think. I might be able to turn this around.

[ardentpause]

: )

Thanks. It means a lot. Really, it's the only reason I'm on the forum.

Keeping Killboxes for Reavers, ahem, I mean Mechs, is a really smart move. Those guys are tough, and they produce metal when you kill them anyway, so requiring turrets as an integral part of their defense is pretty smart.

-ArdentPause

[Tynan]

Thanks a ton amul and ardent. I've read through and appreciate the detailed feedback. Very useful.

...defeating bunkering/killbox strategies in next build.....

Aww, thanks, T-man!

I see a lot of hate going on for kill boxes on the forum, but I think these guys can't see the forest for the trees. The problem isn't the strategy, it's the focus on the front door of your base. You had the right idea with alphabeavers. The problem isn't the completely legitimate, millennia old tactic of fortifying your base, the problem is confusing your base for the game. There's your base, then there's your turf (the rest of the map), and then there's your place in the world, and then the universe. Right now, the game is mostly focused on establishing and protecting your base, with the exception of the alphabeavers threat, which requires you to step out of your safe zone and deal with it.

You're right. Taking combat away from the base entrance was also the intent of both the sieges and the crashed ship part event. Alphabeavers too.

I'm playing RimWorld way more than I should be, and I constantly finish all the research (with ~70 mods) and get ~32 colonists + a dozen or so long term prisoners. I've noticed that things seriously slow down once I have my base fully established, securities set up, profiting from trading, and I'm just picking off a few more researches to keep my researchers busy. Like, there's nothing to do anymore. I just sit around and wait for the next raid, sometimes dev spawning 2-5 1000pt raids for a challenge.

The game is absolutely fun -vanilla and modded- but I feel the endgame could use some more content. Building the ship is a pretty good time sink, but often I find it requires too many resources for me to do it. Perhaps it's my play style, though. I hate to be another person to compare RW and PA, because I know they are two completely different games, but I personally like building large prisons to house the prisoners, and I think it would be really cool to see a gamemode where your job is to build and maintain a huge prison. Maintain happiness, get paid, prevent prisoners from turning their wooden beds into wooden shivs and going crazy, etc. I don't like Prison Architect, strangely enough.

That being said, the game is great, and is coming along very nicely!

The very late game is still somewhat spare, it's true.

What's been interesting is watching this poll shift over time. In the first week it was pretty balanced, but now as more people are judging from the lategame it's biasing towards "underpaced".

[Andy_Dandy]

NB! Regarding Tundra especially: Would be nice if also meat and animal corpses did deteriorate outside. So easy to just keep my butcher bench and meat stockpile outside in the cold now, not really feeling the need to prioritise a room for it. It never rottens and never deteriorates in the cold.

Would also be nice if leather and cloth did deteriorate outside.

[Nataris]

Personally, I feel the game is too fast across the board.  Research is too easy etc.  But to be fair I enjoy longer, more complex games. 

I think turrets should have to be researched and you should start with much less then you do now.  The first few raids, to me, should be much gorilla tactics.  Maybe even limit the building material with wood first and have to research steel and stone walls. 

Struggle to survive, build a small unstable village, grab a stronger foothold on the map, grow, thrive, prosper... then get the hell off that planet

[Klitri]

Everything seems stable, except for plants. Not sure if it's just me, but plants seem to take forever to grow.

[cuproPanda]

Everything seems stable, except for plants. Not sure if it's just me, but plants seem to take forever to grow.

IRL, plants take months to produce foods. Some even take months just to germinate (I'm looking at you, coconut palm I planted for my grandparents). Considering the months in RW consist of ~10 days, it is fairly realistic.

You could plant strawberries, which are the quickest. If you have stoves, rice works, too. Don't eat it raw, though.

[userfredle]

Everything seems stable, except for plants. Not sure if it's just me, but plants seem to take forever to grow.

Im actually a huge fan of the greatly increased food grow times, really adds to the harvest feel of the game getting what you can before winter entombs you

[silenced]

Im actually a huge fan of the greatly increased food grow times, really adds to the harvest feel of the game getting what you can before winter entombs you

As long as you have soil and electricity or a spare steam vent you can grow round-year, no matter where you are. So, food really is not an issue, it's a solar flare that may be tricky, or an eclipse, or a real bad cold snap in an already very cold area.

[amul]

Everything seems stable, except for plants. Not sure if it's just me, but plants seem to take forever to grow.

Also something I just figured out this alpha is the difference in grow rates between different kinds of soil.