Game Too Based On Turrets? Ideas?

[userfredle]

You could possibly restrict buildings based on construction level simliar to crafting does
1 - 4 Wooden Structures
5 - 8 Stone Structures
9 - 12 Metal
13 - 16 Plastel
16 - 20 Advanced Mechanics such as ship building.

To slowdown game pace and make it a bit more difficult turrets woudnt be constructable unless you had a tier 9 - 12 construction bro.

Sorry to hate but i dont think half of it is a good idea, theres already enough Randmize button spaming for high level cooking and medicine.

I dont think level restriction is the way to go, but you deffinelty should be able to build betters structures with skill, i honestly cant believe its not already in but im 100% sure its on tynans to do list, he just likes the free flow of skills and materials, i eventually hope tynan will do this with everything, like meals and the such, would be awesome to have the choice even if you make everyone barf

[leax256]

i haven't used turrets for like 3-4 updates

Interesting, do you play below challenge difficulty on cassandra?

Do you use kill boxes?

Do you find the game completely unfair and unplayable when mechanoids come late game?

If you said yes to any of these then i cant say im too shocked with your playing without turrets

-I play cassandra on challenge

-I have my city walled in with only 3-4 entrences

-only when they drop in the middle of my base do they cause any problems

When you say "city" i assume you havent got a mountain base. How do you deal with sieges?

yes, most everything is outside, maybe only a backup freezer is inside a mountain or a large hill

Pic of my current base

[LittleGreenStone]

Anyone feel turrets should be a very rare commodity instead of building insane amount for just metal to win the game?

We all know turrets are super useful, they provide somthing for the mechanoids to shoot at while you gun them down or maybe you exploit the explosions in a small room, either way they are way cheap and way OP

What are some ways we can make turrets still a part of the game but not the core to rimworlds combat from a defensive standpoint?

A few ideas passed around the forums and on mods is

Traders carry things needed to build or turrets as a whole.

Turrets costing plasteel making them rarer and more endgame.

I think even raiders could have somthing you can recover, such as pieces of a schematic to building the turrets or parts etc

In my opinion, there are two ways of decreasing the number of turrets/increasing the use of pawns.
The first and easier method, is to increase both the cost and the usefulness of the turrets BY A LOT.
A single turret can (maybe) deal with a few pawns, if the turret out-ranges the pawn, that is.
So, you need a whole bunch of them. They're cheap, they're useful in kill-zones.

Now if turrets would be actually armored so that a crazed cave-dweller with a stick couldn't keep hitting it 'til it explodes, it would decrease the need for many turrets- but wouldn't eliminate it. It'd be still weak and cheap.

Increasing its cost (by a lot, maybe even adding other resources to build it) would decrease the number of turrets, obviously, but it'd be still weak, meaning it's use just dropped to a point where it's not really worth the trouble.

So yeah, after all these, increasing its firepower and range would be necessary, so you could have a few, actually useful-by-all-means turrets, capable of killing dozens of enemies unless something big happens to it, like a rocket launcher or a couple of grenades.

It would be reasonable in my opinion as well. Really, I don't buy it, a stationary turret driven by an AI (/VI) having worse accuracy than a squishy pawn with shaking hands...

[Homozygote]

Instead of nerfing turrets I think the game just needs proper AI (no small feat I know). Get meelee dudes to hang back while ranged units kill off your turrets, or if your base is heavily defended with one small opening and a dozen turrets pointing at it, hang back and starve you out/use mortars. I have no idea of the design side of implementing that but anything except rushing into your base to commit suicide on your turret bombs would be an improvement.

Even just having meelee guys ignore turrets would make things more difficult IMO.

[Turtle Dude]

One way to decrease the need for Turrets is to change how guns can be used, one way is to make attachments for guns, similar to how a LMG by default should have a bipod allowing them better range, and accuracy. These there would/should be attachments for almost every gun, and would need to be crafted, and then told to add the attachment on (this needs a crafter as well) the better the gun means the more attachments (max 3-4, and some guns having one by default[sniper=scope, lmg=bipod]). This would cut the need for turrets down a lot and the need for good weapons/attachments for weapons more then cheap turrets due to making the guns better than any turret, lets picture 5 colonists with miniguns (attachments are: bipod[better accuracy, slight range], reflex sight[better accuracy], and extended "clip?" [more bullets fired per turn]), these 5 people could destroy 10 people each, meaning up to 50 people with a made town/kill area, and have almost no need for a turret that would have taken up needed resources that could be used to say repair, or even make these types of weapons.

Sorry for the long post, if you don't want to read it you don't have to.

[Kegereneku]

Instead of nerfing turrets I think the game just needs proper AI (no small feat I know). Get meelee dudes to hang back while ranged units kill off your turrets, or if your base is heavily defended with one small opening and a dozen turrets pointing at it, hang back and starve you out/use mortars. I have no idea of the design side of implementing that but anything except rushing into your base to commit suicide on your turret bombs would be an improvement.

Even just having meelee guys ignore turrets would make things more difficult IMO.

I'm afraid your suggestion would result in encouraging "killbox" forcing the enemy to come in range of the turrets.

The AI might need to get smarter, but Rimworld still need some Artificial-Stupidity to have you survive the battle without relying on luck.

[Kaballah]

Remove turrets from the game, or greatly increase their power requirement.

Eh that's not a serious suggestion, I don't really agree that the game is based on turrets at all.  If you find the game is too difficult to play without constructing a massive array of turrets you might turn down your difficulty setting.

[hector212121]

Really, it's not. You know why?

Sniper rifles, greatbows, and survival rifles all out-range the turret gun.

In other words, yeah, sure, your killbox might work, but that's only because the AI doesn't realize that having someone frag the walls LEADING INTO said killbox could open a hole which can be used to neutralize it.

In other words, turrets don't need nerfs; enemies need buffs!

[userfredle]

Really, it's not. You know why?

Sniper rifles, greatbows, and survival rifles all out-range the turret gun.

In other words, yeah, sure, your killbox might work, but that's only because the AI doesn't realize that having someone frag the walls LEADING INTO said killbox could open a hole which can be used to neutralize it.

In other words, turrets don't need nerfs; enemies need buffs!

You are forgetting 1 Huge factor that makes turrets so OP, Specifically with mechanoids.

Mechanoids take ridiculous amounts of damage and scythers out range any weapon expect the sniper rifle, and since they can cripple or 2 shot kill a colonist in full power armor it makes the game entirely dependent on turrets or a killbox, well as far as mechanoids are concerned.

Yes weve all killed mechanoid ships away from our base, but they usually dont follow you to your home and come knocking down the door, usually you go out with a squad of snipers that can out range them so you dont get any enemy fire back (Which is what separates this scenario entirely from the first

So as far as im concerned, mechanoids are a huge factor in the game REQUIRING turrets to have a possibility of taking them down when theyre coming for your base.

[Frankenbeasley]

Perhaps, since they're unmanned, turrets could have a fixed ammo capacity? That would allow them a role in slowing down an enemy attack but not necessarily negating it entirely. Turrets would become a first line of defence only, useful for dealing with the occasional loopy animal or the early stage raids, but functioning more to give your colonists time to prepare themselves in the face of large assaults.

[userfredle]

Perhaps, since they're unmanned, turrets could have a fixed ammo capacity? That would allow them a role in slowing down an enemy attack but not necessarily negating it entirely. Turrets would become a first line of defence only, useful for dealing with the occasional loopy animal or the early stage raids, but functioning more to give your colonists time to prepare themselves in the face of large assaults.

I would say they do half that now, they are useless IMO as far as damage unless your fighting 3 tribals or an animal, theyre only good use is for a distraction while your colonists mow down the oposition, but still very important and basically the core of combat when it comes to defense

[LittleGreenStone]

Perhaps, since they're unmanned, turrets could have a fixed ammo capacity? That would allow them a role in slowing down an enemy attack but not necessarily negating it entirely. Turrets would become a first line of defence only, useful for dealing with the occasional loopy animal or the early stage raids, but functioning more to give your colonists time to prepare themselves in the face of large assaults.

If you are talking about us having to craft ammo and feed those turrets, that will be the last day I play with Rimworld.
Turrets blow up each raid, the reason killboxes are often necessary is because said turrets stand little chance out in the open.

Having turrets as "first line of defense" would make people need to rebuild the first line of defense after every single raid.
Slim chance... instead, people would just put even more turrets in their killboxes to make sure they have enough bullets to completely overpower the enemy.

Honestly, that would just make it worse.

[Frankenbeasley]

If you are talking about us having to craft ammo and feed those turrets, that will be the last day I play with Rimworld.
Turrets blow up each raid, the reason killboxes are often necessary is because said turrets stand little chance out in the open.

No, goodness no. In my mind I am thinking more along the lines of the sentry guns they set up in Aliens: automated, but with a fixed number of shots they can fire before falling silent. Should you survive the raid, you would need to 'reset' (like a switch toggle) the turrets to have a full load again. Once they are out of ammo they would no longer be a target for raiders, who would then proceed with their initial objective of looking for pawns to kill. This would simultaneously limit the power of turrets whilst also, in many cases, allowing them to survive a raid because, once they have shot their load, they become of no interest to attackers. Turrets would still be useful, but would not be overpowered.

As for your point about what other people would do, well, that is surely up to them. If people want to create a colony where half their resources and power go towards maintaining a killbox, then they jolly well can. I am just looking at a way to, perhaps, balance the turrets out for those who wish to play without killboxing.

[LittleGreenStone]

If you are talking about us having to craft ammo and feed those turrets, that will be the last day I play with Rimworld.
Turrets blow up each raid, the reason killboxes are often necessary is because said turrets stand little chance out in the open.

No, goodness no. In my mind I am thinking more along the lines of the sentry guns they set up in Aliens: automated, but with a fixed number of shots they can fire before falling silent. Should you survive the raid, you would need to 'reset' (like a switch toggle) the turrets to have a full load again. Once they are out of ammo they would no longer be a target for raiders, who would then proceed with their initial objective of looking for pawns to kill. This would simultaneously limit the power of turrets whilst also, in many cases, allowing them to survive a raid because, once they have shot their load, they become of no interest to attackers. Turrets would still be useful, but would not be overpowered.

As for your point about what other people would do, well, that is surely up to them. If people want to create a colony where half their resources and power go towards maintaining a killbox, then they jolly well can. I am just looking at a way to, perhaps, balance the turrets out for those who wish to play without killboxing.

Hm, an interesting idea. Though I still think that turrets with limited firepower would just as much encourage the use of killboxes, perhaps it could work. You are right, those who want to will, those who don't will not.