Paying money for mods

[NoImageAvailable]

So as some of you may know, last Friday Valve and Bethesda officially launched the curated Workshop for Skyrim, where modders can monetize their creations. As it stands Steam is taking a 30% cut (apparently that's standard for microtransactions) and Bethesda another 45%, the modders receive 25% of the revenue, but only after the first $100. Furthermore, while the modder chooses what price to charge, Valve retains the right to change the pricing and/or resell it as part of package deals, etc. without the author's consent. They also refuse any responsibility for the product.

It took less than 24 hours for the first mod to be pulled for copyright reasons and many mods from the Nexus were stolen and sold without the author's consent, causing many modders to hide their mods for fear of further thefts.

While some people argue that this gives creators of major mods the recognition they deserve the overall community reaction has been less than positive and free modding communities like the Nexus have already been forced to adjust while the Steam forums themselves are overflowing with ASCII middle fingers. There is even a petition on change.org against the new Workshop.

Nonetheless many game developers have spoken out in favor of the new system and some games have already announced they would allow for monetization of mods as well. Considering Steam's monopoly on the market I think there is a good chance this trend could catch on and we might see more publishers follow. Since this has the potential to change the modding community as a whole I'm curious what you guys all think. Also, in case Tynan stops by, what is your stance on this? Is monetized modding something you want to see in Rimworld, in this form or another?

[Shinzy]

It sounds all nice and win-win on a paper but im concerned with the things you already mentioned

At this kinda state i feel like neither the modder or the mod user get any real benefit out of this  (well I shouldnt generalize =P Im sure this can be very nice for some )

But im afraid there could be lot of heartache
Patreon would be so much  better way for showing modders the love
( maybe not quite as easy or visible but you dont get this kinda trouble with what stealing content or getting screwed over by paying for non-content )

but really i dont know enough about any of this 

[skullywag]

I will never pay for a mod, i will gladly donate to a fellow modder however. I want to say that this wont stand....but some people are dumb.

I will never charge for a mod I make....nor will I accept donations, I do this for fun.

[RemingtonRyder]

Whichever way you look at it, pushing a new 'product' on customers is not going to get enthusiastic support. Well okay, I realise that the Workshop isn't exactly a 'pushing' avenue, but it could get like that.

What I love about the modding community as it stands is that we don't need to push our mods on people, they come to us if they're looking for something to spice up their game.

Mod authors should be rewarded for their efforts. Especially if they're putting in a ton of effort to cover niche content that the developer couldn't add to the main game.

However, I see it as a market which will become saturated pretty damn fast. By which I mean that customers will say 'bollocks to this' and either find a torrent or just go without that particular mod. gg Valve.

Unless, for example, the developer releases a game with modding potential which makes Skyrim look like Solitaire by comparison. That mods for the game introduce content which requires as much time to develop as the base game itself, but provide near-infinite replayability. And that the base game itself is supported for a far longer period after release.

It may sound like science fiction but hey, that's sort of my occupation.

[Coenmcj]

However, I see it as a market which will become saturated pretty damn fast. By which I mean that customers will say 'bollocks to this' and either find a torrent or just go without that particular mod. gg Valve.

Pushing a bad system on the consumer, especially when said service hardly works as it is (And used to be free, mind you) is a good recipe into forcing piracy. The better, more convenient and more reliable system will always win out in the end.
If the better system is torrents, then Valve isn't doing a particularly good job...

[NoImageAvailable]

Mod authors should be rewarded for their efforts. Especially if they're putting in a ton of effort to cover niche content that the developer couldn't add to the main game.

That gets mentioned a lot by proponents of this system but I seriously question it. Should we really be rewarded (monetarily) for our efforts? I've been modding since 8 years old, tweaking the Rules.ini on Red Alert to make overpowered nonsense. At no point did I ever expect or even desire money for my mods, I just did them because I had fun making them and playing with them myself.

Similar sentiments probably apply to many other modders out there, with modding as a work of passion created because you really liked a game and wanted to improve on it. Not because you expected some kind of public recognition or money or some such. Yet when you introduce money into the mix it complicates things. Suddenly we're no longer just a bunch of hobbyists with a passion for a game but developers competing with each other.

Modding often relies on sharing information with each other to figure out how things work, yet why post in the Help forum when that guy is a potential competitor and by keeping your know-how to yourself you gain a monetary advantage? Why release modder's resources or a tool that can decompile a game's archives when you can keep it and gain an edge over the competition? What about all those collab mods, how do they split the profits? Equal shares? What if one guy decides halfway through that he did the lion's share and wants a bigger cut? Do mod teams make their members sign work contracts?

While I think your statement was made with good intent I don't think modders should be allowed to charge for or expect rewards for their mods, because introducing money into the process will inevitably transform modding from a hobby and a labor of passion into a business and that is not going to benefit anyone, not the modders and not the users, only the companies taking 75% of all the proceeds.

[silenced]

One of the main issues is: if I pay money for something, I want it to work flawlessly.

Now, I 'buy' "MOD 1" on Steam for Skyrim for example, and then I buy "MOD 2" for Skyrim aswell. 2 days later I realize: Oh, when I enter this specific Town both mods cause conflicts and the game crashes! They're not compatible! What now? How do I get to use both mods I bought at the same time? It was not mentioned anywhere that they were incompatible.

There are SO many issues with mods, that raise skyhigh as soon as you pay for. Not sure if Steam and Bethesda really thought that out.

What happens if Bethesda updates Skyrim and my bought mods are not working anymore? Is anyone responsible to update them to the current Skyrim version?

Well, the idea is good, but we're way too far away.

[Adamiks]

No, just no. Mods are mods.

[RemingtonRyder]

While I think your statement was made with good intent I don't think modders should be allowed to charge for or expect rewards for their mods, because introducing money into the process will inevitably transform modding from a hobby and a labor of passion into a business and that is not going to benefit anyone, not the modders and not the users, only the companies taking 75% of all the proceeds.

Hence the 'However...'

Basically, I don't see the need to be rewarded for something which could easily be done by someone else, hence I don't feel the need to be very secretive about how I made them. The only expectation I have is that players should be able to find my mods and use them as they see fit.

If a team of modders got together and produced good quality content which adds many hours and variations on the original game, then if they want to paywall that I have no objection but, as I said, there are better ways to go about it than Valve's $0.99 Workshop of Horrors.


I don't agree with Valve and Bethesda taking a 75% cut without then investing that back into the modding community. It's as simple as this - you want people to discover your games and buy your games long after release day, then support modders who are producing excellent content for those games. Organise contests, do interviews with modders, and update the base game so that it remains a viable platform for modding long after release date.

Basically, change the lifecycle of moddable games so that customers get value for their money. If I were to buy a $50 mod today, then I want it to work on Skyrim or whatever on Windows 10 if I chose to upgrade my operating system. If that's not on the cards then well, nope, not buying that!

[NoImageAvailable]

While I think your statement was made with good intent I don't think modders should be allowed to charge for or expect rewards for their mods, because introducing money into the process will inevitably transform modding from a hobby and a labor of passion into a business and that is not going to benefit anyone, not the modders and not the users, only the companies taking 75% of all the proceeds.

Hence the 'However...'

Basically, I don't see the need to be rewarded for something which could easily be done by someone else, hence I don't feel the need to be very secretive about how I made them. The only expectation I have is that players should be able to find my mods and use them as they see fit.

As I understood you're in favor of rewarding modders for their work (monetarily) and you're just against this particular implementation. The point I want to make is that modders should not be paid, period. Modding is what it is because people can't expect to make money or get public recognition or whatever. The only thing modders get is the satisfaction of having made a game they love better, so it only attracts people with an interest in just that. If you make it acceptable to make money from a mod you will start seeing people who don't care about the game or the community and only want to fill their pockets and that is going to harm modding as a whole. Just look at communities like Gary's mod, where you can't even get some scripting help without someone charging you $10, is that really the kind of environment we want?

[Coenmcj]

Regardless, Steam has supposedly dropped the whole debacle. If only they could fix the workshop now...

[Rahjital]

http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365253244218

Yes, Steam is dropping paid mods, but only from Skyrim workshop. They seem to think the problem was that Skyrim already had an established modding community.

[RemingtonRyder]

As I understood you're in favor of rewarding modders for their work (monetarily) and you're just against this particular implementation. The point I want to make is that modders should not be paid, period. Modding is what it is because people can't expect to make money or get public recognition or whatever. The only thing modders get is the satisfaction of having made a game they love better, so it only attracts people with an interest in just that. If you make it acceptable to make money from a mod you will start seeing people who don't care about the game or the community and only want to fill their pockets and that is going to harm modding as a whole. Just look at communities like Gary's mod, where you can't even get some scripting help without someone charging you $10, is that really the kind of environment we want?

What I said was, with some major caveats (if the mod adds a significant number of hours or variations) then it could work. I'm not ignoring your point about competitive nature tending to lead to secrecy. But if one modder wants to sit on his modding knowledge while laboriously cranking out a 40-hour mod on his own, there's nothing that you or I can do to stop that.

What we can do is encourage modders to collaborate on large projects and achieve something that they could not otherwise do. Which isn't modding as we know it, it's more like third-party development teams producing DLC. My point is, those guys are obviously making a buck. So if a team of modders wants to step up and do the same, that's something I can get behind.

Instead of putting dollar signs up in the workshop (microtranactions be damned!) developers should try to expand the content available for their game by signing up modders with better terms and legalese than the ill-fated Valveshop. The money is secondary, these have to be guys who love what they do and are willing to work as a team and produce a product that rivals the base game and other official DLCs. Maybe it'll be just a one-off project that they do together, maybe they will go on to do others. Some modders do eventually go on to do their own game development!

I know that I would like to get together with a like-minded group of modders one day and do something like that, if it were possible. Like I said, the money is secondary, it's the thought of having my name credited on a DLC and lots of players downloading and enjoying it which is exciting.

[Evul]

Huge legal problem tho a modder have no right giving you something that works. And if you payed for it sorry for you.

I don't think paying for mod is even logic at all.
Bohemia have tho ended that due to outrage in the mod community with is good.

Pay to play a game that some one made and you changed, no.
Donate yes.

[Coenmcj]

Speaking of logic, It seems you may be a tad drunk.