"Haul to" job order

[Kegereneku]

We have already this "Haul" order :


We could have an additional "haul to"

(10 hour in photoshop)

How it would work :
> [you already selected an item/stack]
> Order -> click "Haul to" (shift + "haul to" = select a quantity)
> Select destination
(edit:)> a custom hauling-job is created, a colonist will do so sometime.
Once dropped the item is forbidden. (or left in the state if was in the first place)

/!\ Note : This is not an oldschool direct-ordering-pawn-to-haul-stuff thing, nor meant to do the job of Stockpile.
It is meant to move specific items to place outside stockpile and/or items without a stockpile that accept them.


Complementary :
- could be made to work with sculpture (to automatically uninstall/reinstall somewhere else)
- could be made to work with furniture (so a lamp/heater can be moved)
- could be fitted (along normal Hauling) with an optional prioritizing system.


Warning : might be followed by wave of shell-based minefield.

[StorymasterQ]

Sounds like a great idea! Dunno how hard it'll be to code, though.

[starryknight64]

+1!! This satisfies the obsessive in all of us micro-managers...

[Mikhail Reign]

..... This doesn't really work with how the game functions - if you want something haulled to a certain location set a stockpile there of a higher priorty then were it is currently and then tell your colonists to haul it. What you have described, there is nothing stopping the pawn from hauling the item from where it is, and then immediatly hauling it back once done - if it is hauled from a stockpile, it was there because 'that's where it goes' stockpile wise.

[b0rsuk]

Sounds like a great way to increase the amount of micromanagement in this game. I'd rather have automation features improved, for example ability to create a stockpile of artillery shells, 1 per square.

Furniture is a slippery slope. Ideally, pawns would be smart enough to move chairs on their own. But once improvised turrets can be moved, where does it lead ? Relocating 10 turrets to the side enemies are attacking from ?

[Kegereneku]

I do not see how it "create" micromanagement... You might have misunderstood.
So far we DON'T use such feature and everytime we need to move a specific sculpture/item you have to give multiple direct orders or create a one time stockpiles.

The goal isn't to replace stockpile and automation,
I am the first one to say that whoever need "priority" is using the system very wrong (yes) or simply pilling too much order on their pawns.
However, occasionally events, particular items, or players creativity require a precise move item order we currently lack, regardless if Tynan create automated Locker/Wardrobe that allow to stack private items in a colonist room.

I would like to point out some players wouldn't have micromanagement problems if they kept their population below 10or20 instead of assuming the game is meant for 50. But this is outside the scope of this discussion, the goal isn't to replace/discourage automations, this is to fill a need that cannot be filled any other way.

Tynan do plan to have movable/producible furniture. Up to him to balance this, I'm only suggesting a feature that solve one simple need : Move a certain clothes/weapons/(quantity of)beers/shells from a place to another without needing to create a stockpiles or give that one special clothes to a prisoners without needing to working around with topless&co. (or aside without keeping allowed an item you wished to keep forbidden outside of stockpile)

Mikhail Reign,
I do not see the incompatibility you mention. This is not like the "Haul" order which is meant to designate many opportunistic hauling. This is simply to create a one-time job to carry something precisely somewhere. With provision for other suggestion about Prioritizing not just "haul this first" and a temporary fix for "stack this on top of this to free-up place" (if it happen).
The fact it would allow to spread explosive shell all around the map, is purely coincidental.

Again : This isn't a "click peon, click pick object, click put down object here".
This is a : "Can one of you carry this much of this, to here ?" [shift] "Right now !"

At worst you might want a tutorial notice saying "/!\WARNING : You don't usually need to use this feature everytime, let the colonist haul automatically into stockpile"

[Toggle]

Keger, if one of your pawns is hauling items, and sees the artillery shell you hauled to a location that isn't in a stockpile, they would go and haul it back to the other stockpile as it is their job.

[Mikhail Reign]

Seems like instead of an entire new system, this could be achieved with a "quantity" slider on the stockpile options. Want one beer hauled to the prisoner now - a critical beer stockpile in the prison which only allows 1 beer in it - select colonist, haul that beer.

With the system you suggest that certain clothes/weapons/(quantity of)beers/shells once hauled would be just another random item sitting on the ground, begging to be hauled back to whatever stockpile it came from. I don't really think some system that allows items be be outside a stockpile and not be haulable is a good option.

If that doesn't cut it for ya, maybe make a mod that lets shells be installed the same as furnature, and then just install your shell mine field. That way the shells are random shells sitting on the ground, but rather 'installed shells' which require deconstruction to be made haulable again.

[Kegereneku]

To : Z0MBIE2 , Mikhail Reign

I did suggested to also "forbid it" upon drop off IF not in a correct stockpile.
Like : Colonist pick up item => put it down elsewere with a forbidden state
Don't you think it would solve your concern ?

What bother me more, is that I don't know how job are managed behind, and if the "Haul to" wouldn't cause some recursive loop or break the system.
The way I see it, the idea is to create (one or several) low or high level priority hauling job.

Anyway, Tynan will judge.

[Mikhail Reign]

Well like I said, it seems that what you want could be achieved with a quantity slider of stockpiles.

Also, just as a question, how often are you in the need of something hauled somewhere, which doesn't need to be hauled at its new location to be used? If you were to use your new system to say, haul an outfit to a prison (instead of using a stockpile, set only to accecpt the clothes you want your prisoners wearing, on the floor of the prison) and it gets dropped on the floor, it would have to be forbidden to stop other random colonists from rushing to pick it up to haul it to a stockpile, but that would mean that people couldn't use it because it's forbidden. Unforbidding it would just mean that there would be a race to see who's job came up first - using it of hauling it.

All I'm saying it the system that you are suggesting works outside of the current hauling system, whereas a simply addition to the current hauling system would probably get better results - can you see anyway that simply adding a quantity slider to the stockpiles wouldn't  achieve the goal you are trying for?

[Kegereneku]

This suggestion seem to puzzle you, which in turn puzzle me.

The idea would work WITHIN the hauling-job system, it simply doesn't (necessarily) have a stockpile as a destination, and precisely forbid the items on drop-of, which is what I suggested since the very start.
"Forbidding" is no limited to keep colonist from hauling what you don't need. It is a proven mechanic to preserve some items or keep them where they fell. It is what colonist already do when they drop items.

How can we never need at least one easy way to move a item around without a stockpile ?! (I need one already, other did)

Well like I said, it seems that what you want could be achieved with a quantity slider of stockpiles.

I do not see your alternative as practical for the need expressed.

It would require to set a stockpile, clear all items, select the very one you want, filter its quality/HP/(color?) if it is sufficiently unique and set a precise quantity, per case, then (maybe) erase it later so nothing else that might fit is hauled here.

Also, just as a question, how often are you in the need of something hauled somewhere, which doesn't need to be hauled at its new location to be used?

Occasionally. In context that do not warrant a rigid automation order.
- I don't want to store clothes in prisoner room
- I regularly want to strip a prisoner from armor/clothe then carry it out, fast.
- I regularly forbid items I don't want use carelessly or I want to set aside.
- I once wanted to move a precise amount of shell into a stockpile set aside a claimed-mortar.
- I want to move a few boulders out of the way without needing to set up new dumping area then erase them to prevent further use.
- Setting up a stockpile for one non-consumable items seem pointless.
- ...and since recently I want to create improvised-minefield using shell. (I insist that you do not believe this to be the only reason)
I believe many occasional usage (not suited by heavy automation) will appear if this mechanic is added.

Aside, we are apparently bound to have movable furniture. So you could expand this mechanic with an automatic uninstall -> reinstall somewhere else. This is something I expect a new player to try when answering the question "How do I move a lamp ?"

(Though, maybe the problem is that changing a structure into an item short-circuit the ability to automatically forward a reinstall order)

[b0rsuk]

Crippleworld for most part has indirect control system. You choose what to build where. You designate growing zones, garbage piles, stockpiles. Your pawns take care of that. You usually don't care which pile of rubble goes where. There are exceptions, like building a stonecutter's cabin. Direct control should be exception rather than rule. If you want to micromanage more...
- you're playing the wrong game
- it indicates a flaw in the game's automation.

Most of the situations you bring up can be handled by improved automation features. For example rather than stripping a corpse and selecting a destination for each piece of apparel, I'd select the items I want and press 'P' to prioritize them. Then, pawns who have a Haul job enabled will prioritize hauling over something else with normally higher priority. I could also use "P" to prioritize chunks that are in corridors, or harvested crops. Less work than selecting each colonist manually and having him prioritize hauling corn. I don't really care who does the hauling as long as it's done in an efficient manner.

Features that bring more micromanagement to the game are dangerous. They are a band-aid solution that can be used as an excuse to keep flawed interface and AI. "Doing X is inconvenient!" - says someone on the forum. "So do A, B, C and D and the colonist will do it." - respond 7 people.

[Mikhail Reign]

You do know that if you just pause the game, set a critical stockpile and then tell the pawn to haul the item it will end up there? Its the first hauling job and there is a space in a critical stockpile for that item - if you just added a quantity slider you could just haul one.

What I'm saying is your idea works around moving items into a space that isnt a stockpile and then expecting them to be used - if they are forbidden they wont be used, if they aren't forbidden they should be hauled. Items sitting on the ground aren't prioritized for use over items sitting in stockpiles, so if it wasnt forbidden it would have at best a 50/50 chance of being used instead of being hauled back.

[Kegereneku]

You miss the point.
Mikhail Reign : You are describing one of the time-consuming work-around solution I wish to solve in two/three click.
b0rsuk : My suggestion is not incompatible with your prioritizing idea, however you fail to cover the improvement I suggest. As I feared I think you missed that this is meant as creating hauling-job, not direct-ordering a colonist into hauling something like some old-school RTS. Please re-read the first post.

Both : Of course I know they wont be used if dropped forbidden, that's a feature.
Even if they were to be used (later, after we unforbid them), many of us specialize our stockpile to the point "There is no place configured to hold that item".

If you say "You should have such place", that's only your opinion. Not keeping a stockpile for certain item is a proven method of keeping item usable yet not hauled away. Taking advantage that for rarely used item/resources colonist go to the closest source.

Just in case : This is not at all subverting the point of stockpile, this is to get around stockpile limitations (e.g the time it take to move items/quantity without setting up a rigid, custom-filtered, persistent automation, then deleting it).

What I'm suggesting is a Non-committing & Faster way than creating a stockpile for occasional items you meant to isolate, or move somewhere in particular, or didn't commit a definite stockpile for yet but still need moved, or in too small quantity to warrant a stockpile.

Can we play without ? Obviously, but right now we need to sometime use long work-around.
Can the stockpile be improved ? Surely. But sometime another tool is just better
But I'm saying that NOW and LATER, it can simplify any mechanics relying on the individual placement of items throughout the map.... Not ALL aspect of the game need to be automated, else we might as well make the game play itself.

New examples from yesterday :
- I fought an Crashed-ship and got an AI-Core. Never built a stockpile for it because I either sell it right away or keep it around (in front of my radiocomm).
- a few items weren't in range of a Trade-beacon. Do you force player to modify their trade-beacon filter in a very precise way to solve a problem that don't happen often, then revert the change ? Or couldn't this suggestion be useful ?
- I once lacked storage place. I can either wait, create new one outside.... or wish I could make in two-click a dozen job to stack those disparate beer/silver items*.
- (not yesterday but) if I ever wanted to spread corpse around in a particular/artistic way, do I create (even with copy-pasting) dozen of finely-tuned stockpiles ? Or could this suggestion be useful ?

*About the automatic re-stacking : Surely it could be made automatic, but doing so constantly might slow down the global pace of the game, and other automated solution can also cause cascade problems.

So I have yet to see how it could not be useful or less practical than current work-around.

[Mikhail Reign]

What I was describing IS a two/three click action (well 5 but does clicking twice on a drop down menu count?)

Pause>place place stockpile>make critical (you dont have to unselect anything if its a single square)>select pawn>right click haul item. When you un-pause that pawn will grab that item and move it to where you want it. They also wont move it again because its in a stockpile. You could then delete the stockpile and the pawns would move it to a proper location when you created one, or you could forbid it and they wouldn't move it. If you wanted to do more then that, you could but it would be a little fiddly, but you are trying to do something fiddly in a game that is largely about broad strokes.