Ammunition for weapons?

[Adamiks]

I really like to see weapons that will need ammunition. This would improve fights. There would be also big difference between pistol and assault rifle and sniper rifle. In general fights would be more realistic and players will need to think about (higher) strategy.

[Anduin1357]

Advocated already. Support for this known request!

[Kegereneku]

-1

Sorry, I think we should sacrifice it to increase the chance of getting out-colony expedition, or stuff.

[JimmyAgnt007]

personally i find mortar ammo tedious enough as it is.  ammo for guns would be terrible for micromanaging.  if we only controlled a single person then sure, but not when we can have a dozen or so. 

that being said, an item like an 'ammo pouch' that a pawn can wear, would let them fire faster without any penalty.  keeping it more abstract.  though i wouldnt want to sacrifice the armor or any other clothing slot for it. 

[Adamiks]

personally i find mortar ammo tedious enough as it is.  ammo for guns would be terrible for micromanaging.  if we only controlled a single person then sure, but not when we can have a dozen or so. 

that being said, an item like an 'ammo pouch' that a pawn can wear, would let them fire faster without any penalty.  keeping it more abstract.  though i wouldnt want to sacrifice the armor or any other clothing slot for it.

But in alpha 9 we had keys that was in another slot. Ammo would be in that same "slot". And i think this should be automatic - colonists will picking up ammo for weapon that they have like other apparels.

[JimmyAgnt007]

if its automatic then whats the point?  ammunition production is not a resource intensive process on the scale we are working with.  a single unit of metal and you could make hundreds of bullets.  depending on how much a single unit supposedly weighs.  a person can carry hundreds of bullets and battles generally dont use all that many shots.  so if it costs so little, used very little, and managed automatically, then its not really worth the effort to  program. 

the only way to make it a gameplay challenge would be to severely limit how much ammo you can carry, to a ridiculously low amount. and thus necessitate mid-battle reequipping.  and make production wildly expensive.

i get what you are trying for but i feel like it would just either be tedious to maintain or occasionally annoying.   

[Adamiks]

if its automatic then whats the point?  ammunition production is not a resource intensive process on the scale we are working with.  a single unit of metal and you could make hundreds of bullets.  depending on how much a single unit supposedly weighs.  a person can carry hundreds of bullets and battles generally dont use all that many shots.  so if it costs so little, used very little, and managed automatically, then its not really worth the effort to  program. 

the only way to make it a gameplay challenge would be to severely limit how much ammo you can carry, to a ridiculously low amount. and thus necessitate mid-battle reequipping.  and make production wildly expensive.

i get what you are trying for but i feel like it would just either be tedious to maintain or occasionally annoying.

When i say "weapons with ammo" i mean "weapons with ammo that you need to reload" for this you will need ammo (anyway i think that Tynan made first step - he added ammo to mortars)....

[JimmyAgnt007]

personal opinions on mortar ammo aside, at least each round is big enough to justify manufacturing.  an artillery shell is a lot bigger than a rifle round.  bullets on the other hand are tiny.  they would be in stack sizes like silver coins.  it would be just too easy to produce so many bullets with minimal investment that you would be hard pressed to ever run out.

there are already pauses between burst of gunfire, an abstract concept would be a longer pause to reload after x number of bursts to simulate reloading.  i dont like the idea but it makes more sense.  either way actually counting the bullets seems to be needlessly detailed.

[Mikhail Reign]

Yeah I don't really feel the need for ammo. It's hard enough making sure everyone has pants on, let along making sure they are locked and loaded. Will I have to spoon feed them their potatoes and raiders next? Heh.

But yeah, I feel that within a week everyone would always have thousands of rounds, it would just be another thing I would have to keep checking set up to take ammo properly, and mircoing the hell outa it so I don't inadvertently end up with 2^68 rounds of 5.56 but for some reason no 7.62, when it would be heaps easier to not have it and just say we did

[Anduin1357]

Let the numbers come first...

[Johnny Masters]

Ah yes ammo, the third scourge of the forums besides multiplayer and fog of war

i'd +5 only if extremely streamlined (no minute ammo types) and if micro was eased, such as auto-refill when undrafted and instantly rearming when passing next to a weapon cache. Then it would work better with extra slots so you can can have several options such as bringing extra ammo or an extra melee weapon for example. When out of ammo, battles would devolve to brawls, which should (or could) be a hella funny.

I like the added logistics and management of it all, rimworld being a management game and all, but i can see how some people who are more tuned to the building aspect of the game being put off by it. Perhaps a mod could tackle it first to see how it fares.

btw, do a search for the dozens of posts on ammo, there's a couple of good talk there if memory serves me well

[Anduin1357]

Having different types of ammunition and different calibers and having it all in limited stock is great!
For the newbies, I would suggest allowing them infinite universal ball ammunition filled mags. The customisation range of ammunition is immense, ever knew the difference between a .22(5.6) and a .50(12.7)? The weight and space differences? Maybe how armor piercing is better at mechanoids and vehicles vs incendiary on flesh and blood or even having hollow points to cause maximum lethality vs raiders. The choice is there.

If you want abstraction, fine. I do not blame you. But think about all the fine details that will make a difference get lost in the process. Why a particular gun is better off using 9mm against a more powerful 7.62 mmR (commonly .308) for example instead of letting the balance dorks decide on what is more fair. You don't shoot with more .22 when you use a 50. cal Browning for one.

Having ammunition at all leads to the universal concept of having rounds in a mag that your colonists are free to shoot all they want instead of this 2 to 8 round bursts they call a mag and make it all turn-basey.


Irritated at your M9 (9mm) having too little a magazine capacity? Research and manufacture a larger one! (17 to 32)
Dislike for your run of the mill shotgun shells? Stick stuff in them and watch your crafted projectiles go! (Custom ammunition)
Ever wanted to explore fully the innings of Project Armory? Now is the chance. Scream in favor of ammunition that lasts.


Edit: Caliber conversions.


Edit 2 (Reply):
@Kegereneku 1. We need a backpack slot.
2. Get a vehicle or bring less voluminous ammunition ie. more 5.6mm(.22) ammo can be carried than 5.56mm (.223) ammo.
In other words, grab a Pistol/Personal Defense Weapon for the best results in the ammunition count economy.


Edit 3 (Reply):
@Mikhail Reign
You would be assigning ammunition to your colonists who would automatically fill up ammo to your set quota.
It seems as though you should get the easy mode infinite ball ammo for those who hate the complexity equivalent to a 4X.
You would be making ammunition by hand, taking ammo from raiders or buying them. Maybe an automated ammunitions and explosives production facility would do good as well. Limited by stockpile availability. The armory kind that does not include haphazardly placing ammunition on the ground. The kind that is locked up and logged.

[Johnny Masters]

Perhaps i'd enjoy more (or care for) the intricacies of different ammo types in a jagged alliance/silent storm type of game, which even have a specific era. But this being the future and all, our contemporary ammo types even sound anachronistic.

That said, i get what you are saying about fine details, but a common ground (between no ammo and gun nuts) is having these dozens of ammo types (some with minute differences) be translated into your:  Standard Ammo, AP ammo, HE ammo, whatever-we-fancy-ammo...

[Anduin1357]

When you think about it, it might as well be turned into one of the game options for complexity preferences sake.
The differences in playstyle is just too great when it comes to ammunition.
If you did your research, almost all ammunition is different.


Define standard ammo. What makes up standard ammo? Define AP ammo. What makes up standard ammo?


You could just do my way of system and make your preset ratios to the above.


Standard ammo. 1 part ball ammo, 1 part tracer ball ammo, 1 part hollow-point.
AP ammo. 2 parts AP steel core sabot, 1 part tracer, 1 part ball.


Just think of it like an RT4X, once you set it all up, you will forget it's there until you notice just the stark influence in gameplay these can have.

[JimmyAgnt007]

I think the X-Com method is best.  Unlimited ammo but occasional reloads.  Accessories that augment the ammo type.  So if you want incendiary rounds you equip an ammo pouch for that but you still dont have a finite number of bullets.