Please change the Asperger Rebel backstory?

Started by sajberhippien, May 30, 2015, 08:17:52 AM

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sajberhippien

Well, as the title says, it would be nice to see a change to this backstory, because it really has nothing to do with asperger syndrome. The current description, for reference, says:
"Her asperger syndrome meant he struggled with social situations and was incapable of caring, but she learned hard skills like research and shooting very quickly."

There's a pronoun mixup in there, but that's not why I wrote this. Asperger syndrome in no way makes you incapable of caring, it doesn't even really hinder caring though it can limit the ways in which one can express it. The issue is, the view that asperger (or other forms of autism) makes people uncaring and mixups between autism and psychopathy (which has a component of uncaring, though it's not really as absolute as "unable to care") is a common myth, and very adversely affects many real-life people with autism. As someone who has known plenty of autistic people and is on the spectrum myself, many of them are very caring, sometimes to the point of self-sacrificingly so.

I don't mind autism being in the game, and I don't mind that it's simplified and not that accurately described - it's a game, not the DSM. But that specific myth of autistic people being uncaring has some pretty bad consequences in real life, and I think the game would be better without it.

Further thoughts about the backstory and alternatives, not really that important though:
There's nothing really that makes autistic people extra good at specifically hard sciences stuff either, while we often have special interests there's nothing really that makes shooting more likely than medicine or growing or mining or art. I mean, my own special interest is mainly game design, and that's hardly a hard science :P

Personally, if I where to design it, I'd make it a trait, something like this:
NAME has asperger syndrome, and as such has a hard time with social codes and learning stuff HE isn't interested in. However, what HE wants to learn, he often becomes an expert in.
-4 social
-20% learning speed
Double effect from burning passion OR +3 to some skill and a passion point in it OR just something else that is easy to code but confers the same idea


Now, again, that's just how I would do it and I don't really mind that it's very simplified - my main gripe is with the "unable to care" part.

Vas

Yea, I've had people claim to have Aspergers before and go around being assholes to others claiming, they are allowed to because they have Aspergers and are unable to help it.

I also have Aspergers.  I think a +35% bonus to things with a minor passion and +80% to things with a burning passion would be the best way to use that suggestion of yours by the way.
Click to see my steam. I'm a lazy modder who takes long breaks and everyone seems to hate.

sajberhippien

Quote from: Vas on May 30, 2015, 11:08:55 AM
Yea, I've had people claim to have Aspergers before and go around being assholes to others claiming, they are allowed to because they have Aspergers and are unable to help it.

Well, aspergers (and autism in general) can inhibit one's understanding of what is considered appropriate behaviour in a given circumstance, and I've no doubt acted in a way that hurt others due to me not just getting that it would hurt others, but it's an issue of understanding social signals and subtle communication, not one of not caring. If I didn't care, I wouldn't have such anxiety over any time I accidentally said something hurtful :P.

I absolutely have known people who are viewed as assholes when they're not, due to their autism. I think it can be a valid explanation and excuse for accidentally hurting someone. But it shouldn't ever be used as a _defense_ nor as an excuse not to try.

b0rsuk

There is no one and clearly defined Asperger's Syndrome, unless you count the original Hans Asperger as a definition. Therefore, the phrase "her Asperger's syndrome" is okay, because it can work like that in a single case.

cultist

#4
I'm pretty sure that background is a backer one... so someone paid to have it in the game. Now I could be wrong about this of course, but I don't think someone would do that (or Tynan would allow it in) just to make fun of people with Asperger's.
I think it's more likely that the backer actually has Asperger's or knows someone who has it, and their views on how it translates into the game are just different from yours.

Also, within the frame of the game, "incapable of caring" translates to "unable to do the doctor job". It's not meant to be taken literally, though I see why you'd think so.

Vas

I'm incapable of caring about any of you.  Go away you useless nobodies! :|  (Kidding, of course :P)
Click to see my steam. I'm a lazy modder who takes long breaks and everyone seems to hate.

ModZero

Quote from: cultist on May 31, 2015, 11:43:20 PM
I'm pretty sure that background is a backer one... so someone paid to have it in the game. Now I could be wrong about this of course, but I don't think someone would do that (or Tynan would allow it in) just to make fun of people with Asperger's.

Frankly, then talk to the backer. That wouldn't be the first time a backer-submitted story was changed in games history, and there are other backers for whom this is quite hurtful.

Quote from: cultist on May 31, 2015, 11:43:20 PM
I think it's more likely that the backer actually has Asperger's or knows someone who has it, and their views on how it translates into the game are just different from yours.

Well, then their views are wrong. Not "omg I disagree about influence of basic income" wrong, "I don't believe in the sun" wrong. Except in this version sun has feelings and you made it cry.

Or, more likely, they actually just wrote what's in the "incapable of" section without thinking much, and would agree to a change of wording.

Quote from: cultist on May 31, 2015, 11:43:20 PM
Also, within the frame of the game, "incapable of caring" translates to "unable to do the doctor job". It's not meant to be taken literally, though I see why you'd think so.

That's easy, "is bad at performing jobs that involve social care". There you go. Note that there are two places where "caring" can appear, one is in the "incapable of" section, where it might be awkward, but, eh, whatever, and then in the free text description, where a different wording would be much better.

Seriously, that thing about caring hurts us every day. And finding it in a game we enjoy is like a tiny backstab. I mean, if it were that other people think we don't care — sure, that's actually how it often ends up.

mcduff

+1

Whether or not someone did it deliberately doesn't matter. You can still do things which are hurtful even inadvertantly.

muvb

Quote from: mcduff on August 26, 2015, 06:36:25 AM
+1

Whether or not someone did it deliberately doesn't matter. You can still do things which are hurtful even inadvertantly.

They didn't intend to cause harm, and that's all that matters. Your personal interpretation is irrelevant.