What do you guys think needs added to Rimworld for it to be considered done?

[Kegereneku]

[as I was writing this message, BAM ! Tynan answer, it still feel right]

Speculation here, but I'm feeling that Tynan want the game to switch into finished so he can get a different relationship with the Fanbase, from being "burdened by hope and expectations" to "I delivered and I might keep improving following suggestion".

Only one person know the truth on this but I think it's a reasonable logic,
However it rely on Kickstarter's Backer's considering themselves satisfied by the product and its price.
... also afraid it won't keep fans from considering the game is "lacking" things or missing its "real potential", but at least it will be purely subjective and less based on expectation (aside the Backers).

An example I know of this is KSP.
- It is "released".
- It is still being heavily "improved" right now (32bits to 64bits in a physic heavy game)
- Yet, many fans consider it rushed its release and require correction at least, if not reworking.

[Tynan]

I'll just say that I also think the game is missing it's "real potential". Another way of putting it might be saying it is "lacking" things that would really grow it. That is, of course, why I am still working on it and hiring other people to work on it!

I just want to make the distinction between these things and "unfinished", because that distinction is important. It's the difference between "it would be so awesome if you..." and "you promised us you would...".

KSP example is instructive, thanks.

[NoImageAvailable]

I agree. If you feel the game is light on content for it's price, a valid criticism would be to say that, not to call it unfinished. If you order a pizza and it's too small, you call it too small, not half-baked.

My main purpose in this thread is to ask people not to blur the distinction between these things, because it leads to a lot of heartbreak.

It mostly comes down to the game's current Alpha (meaning unfinished) status. To stay within the analogy, if a chef was putting on topping and suddenly declared he's done and he'll bake the pizza now I'd say "it's not done, you still need to add more pepperoni and cover the other half with cheese". If I was only presented with the already baked pizza after the fact I'd say "this pizza has almost no pepperoni and only one half has cheese, what the hell". If Rimworld was a 1.0 release I'd say it's light on content for the price, but since it is in Alpha I'm saying it still needs to be worked on.

Either way it's just semantics to me.

Of course. I'm totally obligated to conform to a certain standard - the standard of the game described and promised in the Kickstarter. That has already been exceeded. Every word of promise in the Kickstarter has already been fulfilled. If you can point to anything I promised in the Kickstarter that isn't fulfilled, please do so. Because I definitely want to make sure I cover all my bases for you guys.

Note that I'm not necessarily arguing that you did or did not fulfill the promises of the Kickstarter. My issue was more that in your other posts you seemed to argue that as a creator you have absolute freedom and are not bound by anything, when you are accountable to the Kickstarter backers. But it seems we are in agreement here.

[Tynan]

in your other posts you seemed to argue that as a creator you have absolute freedom and are not bound by anything

I'd never say anything like this. I've always said that as a creator I'm bound by my promises - no more and no less.

[Kegereneku]

Be careful with analogy guys, at some point they take a life of their own and murder their creators.

Joke aside, thank you Tynan for the clarification.
Right now I can only say this : I understand you want us to recognize the work you've put into this as "worth its damn" or "Sufficient by itself". However it is to me a lost battle and we can't put the blame on anyone as long as
- there's backer's /E-Access alive
- the game is sold as Alpha

So really, this topic is simply a new database for you to know what a vocal-minority would prefer over anything else, a different nuance than "what do you want next ?" since it imply the finished game. Obviously, like any other suggestion you are not forced to let it influence you.

We participate to this thread to share opinions anyway, some of us trust you to choose more wisely than us.

[Cazakatari]

Tynan, I think most of the panic/angst some are feeling over you saying the game can be considered "finished" is the huge number of burns many have had over kickstarter/EA over the past few years (starbound was what did it to me).

I'm also disappointed to hear that development might stop, but I'm not terribly concerned yet because you haven't definitively said it will stop.  I understand the need for a break and hope very much it'll allow you to continue working on the game, because there are still a few aspects that I feel could be refined/expanded (faction trading/diplomacy, more events, etc)  Even if you don't do anything else, as you've said, you've met the promises in the original kickstarter.  Thinking about it, I would still be happy with the $30 I spent right now as well. 

That doesn't mean I'm not going to put on my biggest, cutest set of puppy eyes and beg you to continue the excellent work you've done (after your well deserved break of course).  I want to tell everyone that tugging Tynan's heartstrings is probably a better tactic than trying to argue/obligate/force etc etc so stop being so hard on him

[DNK]

Frankly, if the game was released as final as build 11 I'd consider my money well spent and whatever "promises" there were fulfilled. So I find all the talk of said promises being unfulfilled or of Tynan owing customers ridiculous. That's not to say I'd be happy that it was finalized in its current form, but I'd still be satisfied as a customer.

I've paid a lot more for a lot less. I consider about 50c/hr to be a "good deal" for a game, which for Rimworld would mean 60 hours of playtime. I think I've certainly gotten close to that by now, and enjoyed every minute of it.

As a customer, that's all that's important: did I get my money's worth? I did already, and I'm sure I will get a lot more of it in the future. This is the sort of game I can pick up and play again years from now.

That said, I definitely want and hope for a lot more features and content. Like my pet wish, Area of Effect Buildings, a far more involved tech tree, a lot more variety and decor, a water system, and improved factions and diplomacy/trading.

[Devon_v]

I got burned on Starbound, too, but that's Chucklefish's fault, I'm not going to hold it against Early Access in general. Dungeon of the Endless had a near flawless EA cycle, and Darkest Dungeon is doing quite nicely as well.

Early Access seems to mean so many things to different people. I see it as being an investor. Some people have an idea. They need money to make it happen. I give them money. I am well aware that it might fail, or that the reality of what they are working on may result in unforseen changes. I understood the risks going in, but I felt it was worth it because I wanted that game to exist.

[CharlieC]

Tynan, you need a break and time to think about the game whilst not staring at its code all day and nearly every day. I would put off all this angst and go do stuff that has nothing to do with games and gamers. Then come back with a fresh mind.

I am pretty sure that near everyone on the forums wants the game to be as successful as it can be. I can see from reading through the posts on the topic that even die hard fans are not always reading the game's status the same way you are. This will multiply by many times once it gets to steam. Be very, very ready for the steam launch because there is a lot of insanity and ill informed comment there and if you go at it with your current 'burnt out' defensive attitude it could be ugly.

Go look at the way you were answering questions and concerns about the game in the early days - is there a difference? If so, why?

You have a very good game -a break and fresh perspective could make it great.

Also when you do take your break make it a long one and don't take your phone or a computer. Make it a real break. The game will still be here. The fan base will still be here and you are likely to come back with a brand new head on full of exciting thoughts and if your lucky and party very hard you might even have much of your initial energy and vision replenished.

[CheeseGromit]

Yes indeed - pretty good summary right there. These days, "done" just means the core promises are fulfilled. It doesn't mean it can't still be added to. (and of course, just because it can be added to doesn't mean it's not done).

Whilst absolutely true, as a gamer I'm completely at your mercy in terms of information about the future of the game. I'm sure there are plenty of examples where released was done and the developer moved onto other things, no more bug fixes, no more content, the end. With the level of access we have to you and the potential to shape the future of Rimworld, it may be selfish but I think it's fairly natural for people to try get as much as they can before believe that they're not going to get any more.

[Darastrix]

I just want pizza now

[mokonasakura]

I'll just say that I also think the game is missing it's "real potential". Another way of putting it might be saying it is "lacking" things that would really grow it. That is, of course, why I am still working on it and hiring other people to work on it!

I just want to make the distinction between these things and "unfinished", because that distinction is important. It's the difference between "it would be so awesome if you..." and "you promised us you would...".

KSP example is instructive, thanks.

There definitely needs to be more added to the game but the real issue I've seen so far is it doesn't feel like there is any progression. The only real thing you need to rush in research right now is turret gun cooling everything else is just there for when you happen to get it. It only takes a couple of in game days to build your kill box base because nearly everything is able to be created once you load the game. Also you cant even craft guns which is a huge problem right now if you decide not to use mods.

[Toggle]

I think we should just close this thread and move on e.e

[andyprogrammer]

I just want pizza now

If I understand this thread correctly, and I think I do, it's that Tynan is promising us all pizza.

[kingtyris]

All I really want before 1.0 is an expansion to existing features. Some things, like trading, diplomacy, and the number and variety of random events have a sort of placeholder, we'll-come-back-and-finish-it-later kind of feel. If the existing features were fleshed out a bit more, I wouldn't mind if no actual new feature were added.