AI sees through walls

[zandadoum]

option a) re de sapper AI code completely from scratch. eval: 250h.

option b) just write some lameass text excuse for current sapper AI behaviour. eval: 5min.


now, take a educated guess which option Tynan would chose?

so, how about you just accept sappers as they are and make up your own favourite story to justify their behaviour?

my personal pick: visitors that roam my base are spying on my instalallations. end of story.

[NemesisN]

I am not a little kid to use my imagination to explain things

If you prefer imagination over reality that is your own thing...go to RimWorld and play it like that

as for me I will keep suggesting things and complaining about things I would like to see to be changed....that is the point of Alpha games that is the point of Forums and discussions about the Alpha games

As for the developer he does not have to do anything he does not want to do...its up to him

If he put a explanation of lets say the "X-Ray" or something like that I would still search for a explanation why do we don't get those devices when we kill or capture the Sappers....so in short writing down that they have a some sort of device without adding it actually to the game would not keep me quiet


also to add on: I do not allow visitors inside my base I shoot them on sight...so there is no spies

[Mikhail Reign]

How about:

Because what you want requires a mountain of programming, for very little payoff? Creating an AI which could tunnel through the mountains in a directed, but not 'all knowing' but also not gamable way would take a lot of time. It's just simpler for them to come in, randomly target your base on a place away from turrets and go from their. What your asking for implies that the sappers would learn - that's some pretty hefty AI for a simple cog.

Also I can 'explain' the sappers pretty easy. They don't know your base is there. That's just a random location they happened to dig in. They are just incredibly lucky.  They also thought 'this colony has been here a while, it's to probably pretty big inside that mountain. Bet if we dug here we would find a room pretty quick'

[NemesisN]

Like I already said a couple of times before the developer does not have to do anything if he does not want to if its too much work for him....but I have to repeat myself all the time

also its not random...they dig with 100% accuracy into the hidden room...not missing 1 time....every time I play when I get attacked by them they dig into the hidden room...every single time...that is not luck...100% is not luck and its not random

also that logic of them thinking maybe you have a big base because you been long in the world makes no sense....I dig a giant tunnel down the mountain right when I start the game to collect enough recourses and create a hidden room for batteries storage....so that explanation of them thinking you been long enough to have a giant base that leads into hidden room even though you recently started the game makes no sense at all

same thing with "spies", "x-rays" and all that kind of made up things...those are your opinions based on made up things on what you want to believe in not the actual facts that exist in the game....we can discus about that all day long but its pointless since those explanations are made up and don't exist in the game

[Mikhail Reign]

They just save scum until they find a room.

[zandadoum]

same thing with "spies", "x-rays" and all that kind of made up things...those are your opinions based on made up things on what you want to believe in not the actual facts that exist in the game....we can discus about that all day long but its pointless since those explanations are made up and don't exist in the game

so, basically, you want Tynan to spend X hours on coding something because YOU lack of imagination?

you ask why enemies could have spies and x-ray and you don't?
well, why do mechanoids have evil ships and you don't?

we could come up with a list of gazillion of things currently, that enemies have and you don't... so why does only the x-ray idea bother you?

i tell you why: because you have no imagination whatsoever


btw, one of your own guys could be a spy

[NemesisN]

so, basically, you want Tynan to spend X hours on coding something because YOU lack of imagination?

you ask why enemies could have spies and x-ray and you don't?
well, why do mechanoids have evil ships and you don't?

we could come up with a list of gazillion of things currently, that enemies have and you don't... so why does only the x-ray idea bother you?

i tell you why: because you have no imagination whatsoever


btw, one of your own guys could be a spy

since you ignore reading what I already wrote down a couple of times...I will give you a screenshot so I do not repeat myself all the time and write the same things over and over again because you refuse to read



Mechanoids are different race they are not humans....I am talking about human race the faction of the same race as yours....and you have your own ship that you can build in case you did not know that

name some things that enemy human Faction have and you don't except these Sappers...name at least 1 or 2 things since you mention there is currently gazillion which I hardly believe that you understand what gazillion means

also that explanation "one of your own colony is spy" is also made up

I don't have a big imagination because I am an adult and not a kid....I do not talk about fairy tales or live in a dream world

[Mikhail Reign]

I don't have a big imagination because I am an adult and not a kid....I do not talk about fairy tales or live in a dream world

You mean like the make believe worlds created in our imagination via video games?

Also.... No insult intended but... thats sad man. Having an imagination has nothing to be with being a child. This game was once just something imagined by Ty....

doubleplusalso - As a person I would never mine into someone else's base right next to the door. I mean that's where all the defenses would be. I would just pick a random (not actually random - it would actually be influenced by all the calculations my human brain is able to do easily, something that isn't simple for an coded AI, but for all intensive purposes it would seem random) spot in the mountain away from their main entrance and drill into that. I reckon I would be able to drill into a room more often then not just by using logic. Since coding an AI with this thought process would be a massive undertaking, I am happy for them to just know where the base is and drill into it. Would much prefer them doing that, then just drilling into useless rock 'somewhere over there' because they have no idea where my base is. At least that brings a challenge.

[NemesisN]

I created this topic to have a serious discussion about it and not a discussion about fairy tales...the fact that a lot of people are making up things instead of having a real conversation is completely pointless

imagination is something that is imagined in your head and that does not exist....video game is pretty real you can interact with it even though its a virtual world it still exist on your PC that you can interact unlike imagination that you can not interact with because its in your head


Developer of this game did imagine a game and made it real....that is the point...its no longer a imagination its a thing you can interact with now


anyway besides that I am not here to talk about made up things I just don't get it why a lot of people just keep making up things instead of sticking on what the game has actually to offer

[zandadoum]

I don't have a big imagination because I am an adult and not a kid....I do not talk about fairy tales or live in a dream world

oh i see. only kids have imagination?

so... books and movies are made by kids? brb, gonna tell George R.R. Martin and J.K. Rowling to stop writing right away!!! Can't tell Terry Pratchet as he's dead already tho.

you don't have a big imagination, not because you're an adult, but becuase you're YOU. I am 41, I have lot's of imagination. Enough at least to imagine it's not worthwhile to re-code all of enemy AI just because YOU lack imagination for such a trivial and simple thing...


you want a serious discussion?

here: sapper AI is fine, get over it.

[Mikhail Reign]

I created this topic to have a serious discussion about it and not a discussion about fairy tales...the fact that a lot of people are making up things instead of having a real conversation is completely pointless

imagination is something that is imagined in your head and that does not exist....video game is pretty real you can interact with it even though its a virtual world it still exist on your PC that you can interact unlike imagination that you can not interact with because its in your head


Developer of this game did imagine a game and made it real....that is the point...its no longer a imagination its a thing you can interact with now


anyway besides that I am not here to talk about made up things I just don't get it why a lot of people just keep making up things instead of sticking on what the game has actually to offer

Ok.

What the game has to offer: I can build a base. Pawns come and try and break it.

If the pawns don't know where my base is, they cant attack it, taking away a lot from what the game has to offer.

I get what you are saying - you don't like how the pawns can tell where everything is. How come you don't have a problem with the pawns spawning at the side of the map and then B-lining it right to your front door? They wouldn't have been able to see the door. They should have no idea where anything is. There was a giant mountain between where they spawned and the base - they should have spawned, seen the mountain and then thought 'oh well nothing here' and then left. Instead what they do is run straight around the mountain, using the shortest path between were they are and my door, as though they somehow knew where it way.

You have a problem with that too?

[NemesisN]

I don't have a big imagination because I am an adult and not a kid....I do not talk about fairy tales or live in a dream world

oh i see. only kids have imagination?

so... books and movies are made by kids? brb, gonna tell George R.R. Martin and J.K. Rowling to stop writing right away!!! Can't tell Terry Pratchet as he's dead already tho.

you don't have a big imagination, not because you're an adult, but becuase you're YOU. I am 41, I have lot's of imagination. Enough at least to imagine it's not worthwhile to re-code all of enemy AI just because YOU lack imagination for such a trivial and simple thing...


you want a serious discussion?

here: sapper AI is fine, get over it.

you are being ridiculous now...movies exist they are made same as book...people have in their head what they want to create and they created it....X-ray's and spies are not in RimWorld get over that no matter how much you imagine that they are real they are not currently part of the game...why do you want to discuss about something that does not exist ? unlike books or movies that do exist

[NemesisN]

Ok.

What the game has to offer: I can build a base. Pawns come and try and break it.

If the pawns don't know where my base is, they cant attack it, taking away a lot from what the game has to offer.

I get what you are saying - you don't like how the pawns can tell where everything is. How come you don't have a problem with the pawns spawning at the side of the map and then B-lining it right to your front door? They wouldn't have been able to see the door. They should have no idea where anything is. There was a giant mountain between where they spawned and the base - they should have spawned, seen the mountain and then thought 'oh well nothing here' and then left. Instead what they do is run straight around the mountain, using the shortest path between were they are and my door, as though they somehow knew where it way.

You have a problem with that too?

well I am glad that you get what I am talking about

so let me answer your question....the AI spawns on edge of the map because that is where the map cuts off that is where they came from....where should AI spawn then in middle ? that would make less sense.....also some of them drop down in space pods which also makes sense

the door or your entrance to colony base is right outside...visible for everyone...that is why it makes sense for them to easily locate it...the map is not a open world its a small boxed world where they can easily locate your colony base that is outside....but my topic here is why they can locate hidden rooms inside even though you can't locate hidden rooms or anything behind the mountain walls covered with roof ?

Enemy faction which are humans have everything that your colony has...same advantages and abilities...Sappers ruin that fair play with their unexplained knowledge of hidden spaces inside the mountains

[zandadoum]

you are being ridiculous now...movies exist they are made same as book...people have in their head what they want to create and they created it....X-ray's and spies are not in RimWorld get over that no matter how much you imagine that they are real they are not currently part of the game...why do you want to discuss about something that does not exist ? unlike books or movies that do exist

are you actually serious? are you trolling? do you suffer from OCD or are you just plain and normal stupid?
"movies exist they are made same as book...people have in their head what they want to create"
THATS CALLED IMAGINATION, you dummy

so, you're capable of accepting/imagining that mechanoids exists, that tribal tribes exist, that you dropped in a droppod onto a planet... but you're not capable of imagine ANY WAY WHATSOEVER that would justify sappers knowing your base layout?

let me ask you something different: if you're on a huge planet, on a huge map, hidden in the mountains... how did the raiders find your base in first place, hum? you don't have a problem with that it seems. and there is no explanation to it either anywhere on the "official changelog"

also explain this to me, and this actually IS in the changelog, i quote: "Enemies remember trap positions that their faction has encountered before, and avoid them." how is this possible, when i don't leave any survivors, hum?

so, how about you get your head out of your butt, stop asking for stupid uneeded changes and start to use YOUR IMAGINATION a little bit?

[NemesisN]

zandadoum if you think that my topic is unneeded then you are free to leave it...I have every right to post my likes and opinion on what I would like to see to be changed in game like every other person here

I do not know how old are you but you really do not use common sense by any means at all then to call people stupid, claim they have OCD which is really childish....I suggest that you google imagination because its already annoying that I need to explain to you the difference between something that exist and something that does not

like 10 times already I said its pointless to talk about something that (I will use Caps letters this time maybe you will get it) THE GAME DOES NOT HAVE to explain a feature that exists in game


and if you have problems with traps or anything else in the game feel free to make a topic about it and suggest a modification...that is the point of Alpha games....developers want peoples opinion on their game.....I do not use traps so I don't have a problem with that