AI sees through walls

Started by NemesisN, July 29, 2015, 01:52:33 AM

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NemesisN

As we all know AI is lot smarter so they dig through walls...but the stupid thing about that is how the hell they know where exact to dig ?...I build a room inside a huge mountain and they dig a straight line trough it

When my colony dig trough walls (mine) I don't see what is behind the walls....is it a secret room...is it a ore...is it a open space....I need to dig to find out not knowing what is behind

but AI somehow knows exactly what location your rooms are hidden inside the walls

This is really unrealistic that AI know where exactly to dig....its a unfair advantage....why don't they randomly dig or make a mistake but they know exactly where my rooms are hidden inside the mountain


Picture example

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Kaballah

Apparently all tasks including work bench recipes work off a radius and do not examine the number of steps or time required to reach the goal.  It's not just enemy AI.  I don't like this behavior anywhere it appears but yes it's irritating with invaders too.

b0rsuk

It would be fiendishly difficult to write AI that is convincingly human-like and still poses a challenge. Besides, player knows EXACTLY where everything is, so it's fair game.

As to how they know ? Spies. You get lots of visitors, don't you ?

I'm a bit more annoyed that mortar crews know exact positions of all moving colonists on the map. Quite often they try to shell  snipers sent to take them down.

NemesisN

Quote from: b0rsuk on July 29, 2015, 04:13:01 AM
It would be fiendishly difficult to write AI that is convincingly human-like and still poses a challenge. Besides, player knows EXACTLY where everything is, so it's fair game.

As to how they know ? Spies. You get lots of visitors, don't you ?

I'm a bit more annoyed that mortar crews know exact positions of all moving colonists on the map. Quite often they try to shell  snipers sent to take them down.


actually player does not know what hides inside the mountain...unless you use some kind of mod for that but we are talking about vanilla....you do not know what is behind a wall of a mountain until you dig trough so you do not know where are hidden structures, ancient evil, ores, open space


and no I do not allow visitors I shoot or capture them as soon as they come near my colony....I like capturing visitors and having all faction enemies.....I never send them recourses or request help from them...I like capturing them and recruiting, growing up my colony
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A Friend

Man, you guys are taking things too seriously. I don't really mind if it's not realistic.

I could provide a ton of unrealistic and illogical things about this game. But nah...
Just answer this: "Is it really that irritating that I can't enjoy this raid?"
"For you, the day Randy graced your colony with a game-ending raid was the most memorable part of your game. But for Cassandra, it was Tuesday"

Squiggly lines you call drawings aka "My Deviantart page"

winnsanity

Quote from: NemesisN on July 29, 2015, 01:52:33 AM
As we all know AI is lot smarter so they dig trough walls...but the stupid thing about that is how the hell they know where exact to dig ?...I build a room inside a huge mountain and they dig a straight line trough it

When my colony dig trough walls (mine) I don't see what is behind the walls....is it a secret room...is it a ore...is it a open space....I need to dig to find out not knowing what is behind

but AI somehow knows exactly what location your rooms are hidden inside the walls

This is really unrealistic that AI know where exactly to dig....its a unfair advantage....why don't they randomly dig or make a mistake but they know exactly where my rooms are hidden inside the mountain

Would you rather that the raider just dig aimlessly everywhere?  What do you expect?  You want realistic?  None of this game is realistic.  Perhaps the raiders have a pin point on one of your orbital  trade becans and know were to dig by that?

NemesisN

the game does not have to be 100% realistic...but it could be less of a troll....the AI that dig straight line to your rooms and rocket launchers that fire like machine guns....these 2 things in the game are so unbelievable annoying and and OP....it can easily ruin your colony just like that....the game is hard enough with all the things that it has why does it need to give AI additional advantage
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Play2Jens

It can be realistic IMO. What if the raiders have some gear that detects wave lengths through the mountains? We are playing a game that takes place in the future.

Anyway, if you don't have that much imagination it's still a minor flaw. Stop complaining and enjoy the game

NemesisN

#8
Quote from: Play2Jens on July 29, 2015, 10:37:47 AM
It can be realistic IMO. What if the raiders have some gear that detects wave lengths through the mountains? We are playing a game that takes place in the future.

Anyway, if you don't have that much imagination it's still a minor flaw. Stop complaining and enjoy the game

If raiders had those then it would be mentioned in the development blog...but there is no such thing...I am not a kid to have a huge imagination to make up random beliefs from my head about something that is not explained

If people do not complain or suggest things then we would not give any ideas to developer where to improve the game....complaining and suggesting things are the part of Alpha games that are still work in progress
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A Friend

Quote from: NemesisN on July 29, 2015, 10:18:56 AM
the game does not have to be 100% realistic...but it could be less of a troll....the AI that dig straight line to your rooms and rocket launchers that fire like machine guns....these 2 things in the game are so unbelievable annoying and and OP....it can easily ruin your colony just like that....the game is hard enough with all the things that it has why does it need to give AI additional advantage

For you perhaps, I quite enjoy it.

These are challenges that you need to beat. You just need to exert the effort to do it. And when you do, it feels rewarding.

Ways to do so, however, varies.
Smart thinking, luck, save scumming, getting out of your fortress/comfort zone or combination of all of these. Be creative with how you approach things.

You're probably the type of player that rely mostly on defense. Try offense. Or if that fails, lower the difficulty. Also regarding the AI thing, it's supposed to be a threat, not a daily drop of gear.
"For you, the day Randy graced your colony with a game-ending raid was the most memorable part of your game. But for Cassandra, it was Tuesday"

Squiggly lines you call drawings aka "My Deviantart page"

NemesisN

different people have different opinions, likes and dislikes...maybe for you that is good but for me its annoying and there are people that would agree with me

I do not rely on defense I use a lot of offense tactics which result in higher chance of deaths of my colonist....and that risk is caused because of these see trough walls diggers which force me to go on offense

this is a advantage to AI which I find unfair for them to know the exact location of rooms inside the mountains with no really good defense against it then to surround your entire base with turrets and that costs a lot of recourses and power
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NemesisN

also to add on that lowering difficulty does not effect this at all

every story teller has its own difficultly but that does not change the AI to not dig trough walls...no matter what difficultly you set the game they will dig trough....no matter if its a small scale or large scale raid they cause a lot of problems with it and its annoying
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RemingtonRyder

I've found that sappers seem to pick on the same spot to break through. But they're not completely predictable, sometimes if they have frag grenades they'll just lob grenades at the wall/rock. Still, it's nice to be prepared.

*sound of sapper being decapitated by deadfall trap*

TLHeart

sappers, so easy to defeat, go out and attack the escorts before the sapper starts attacking your walls/ mountain. The sapper is easy to identify also, has grenades, and is either mining or attacking a wall. The escorts will mill around while you kill them... They will not fight back until the sapper starts attacking your outer perimeter.

The sappers Know where to dig, because you trade with the trades, who see everything, and that knowledge is shared by all factions.

And sappers will attack the same spot over and over, so long as you don't put any defense in that area.... you can even control where the sapper will attack, by where you place turrets, and ieds.

The intent of the sapper is to get you out of your base and to be difficult, to force you to use a different strategy.

A Friend

#14
Quote from: NemesisN on July 29, 2015, 12:46:29 PM
different people have different opinions, likes and dislikes...maybe for you that is good but for me its annoying and there are people that would agree with me

I do not rely on defense I use a lot of offense tactics which result in higher chance of deaths of my colonist....and that risk is caused because of these see trough walls diggers which force me to go on offense

this is a advantage to AI which I find unfair for them to know the exact location of rooms inside the mountains with no really good defense against it then to surround your entire base with turrets and that costs a lot of recourses and power

Sappers, drone ships, sieges. These are all events created for the purpose of forcing the player to risk the lives of their pawns and create a change of pace. So not every raid is a one sided meatgrinder.

Your problem is that you can't prepare against it because it's unpredictable. And it creates a situation where your pawns are in danger. Death is part of this game, you need to accept that. Unless it's obvious BS like death from lightning strikes. Otherwise, save scumming best answer

I wonder what would happen if you try Dwarf Fortress.


Quote from: NemesisN on July 29, 2015, 12:51:35 PM
also to add on that lowering difficulty does not effect this at all

every story teller has its own difficultly but that does not change the AI to not dig trough walls...no matter what difficultly you set the game they will dig trough....no matter if its a small scale or large scale raid they cause a lot of problems with it and its annoying

Again, the whole point of them avoiding your defenses and targeting unprotected places IS to cause problems for you. Problems that you need to solve. You just don't want to deal with that and it happening annoys you. The same way I feel when there's a crapton of centipedes attacking my base, creating long fights I find a chore.

I doubt I can convince you. Either you'll just have to deal with it or revert (if possible) to a previous version of the game before sappers. Because this is an intended feature that probably won't be changed. Along with the triple rocket launcher.
"For you, the day Randy graced your colony with a game-ending raid was the most memorable part of your game. But for Cassandra, it was Tuesday"

Squiggly lines you call drawings aka "My Deviantart page"