Sappers and undiscovered rooms

[Jimyoda]

(This is closely related to a current thread but the comments there are getting too tense and annoying.)

Hoping Tynan might have some input on this...

Scenario: A pre-existing but undiscovered room is in a mountain, close to your base and also close to the mountain edge.

Question: Do sappers calculate the path cost through the undiscovered room as rock or as the empty room?

Analysis: I watched a live stream where a sapper started mining through a 15-square section. After just four squares the enemy reached a room seven squares long, then only had a few more squares of rock to go. I'd say the sapper knew full well the room was there to provide a shortcut.

Opinion: I can deal with sappers tunneling into my mountain base because I made it close too the mountain edge. However, I really don't feel that sappers should be aware of undiscovered rooms or undiscovered open-sky pockets.

Suggestion: If sappers' knowledge of undiscovered mountains won't be changed then I request that the player gets some kind of nifty tool to scan a small section of mountain to reveal what's inside. Such a tool would be available only from traders or locked behind a research wall.

[Play2Jens]

In my opinion, if such a device gets implemented, it makes discovering hidden rooms too easy. At the moment it's always a pleasant surprise to accidentally tumble on them. I know you suggest it more as an mid-game or late-game tool. But it's not too hard to find one of these rooms and this thing would make it only easier.

Apart from that, I have no problem with sapper's AI not being 100%. The fact that they know about the hidden rooms or the location of your mountainous rooms is a minor flaw and barely affects gameplay. Although I support the idea that early sapper's digging should be more random (and therefore they have a harder time getting into your base), and late game sappers a bit more smarter (for example: not always digging the same way)

The other thread you are referring to is indeed very annoying, since it's only 2-3 people getting winded up so much because of such a minor flaw. Give Tynan a bit more respect.

[Adamiks]

Solution:
Sappers should avoid places when their people died (and someone escaped or not optionaly) not turrets, but they should dig in places around danger zone (random square to X squares around danger zone). After they dig out X blocks (or they're X blocks too close to the edge of mountain or wall) and they didn't find the player they should start to dig in direction where the danger zone is, but not INTO the danger zone (there are only 4 directions in rimworld, 1 of them will be coridor made by sappers, so they would only need to choose 1 from 3). This would need much less resources and would work well + sappers would be a real threat now because they would be more random, for now they just avoid danger zone and go to the closest room

What you guys think about this? I don't think there is a better way to make sappers "random" and "not knowing everything". Guy above said that they should avoid turrets, but there is too much problems with this idea + this would take too much resources in some scenarios.

EDIT
There is a problem... What about people that died outside the killbox on the random place (siege etc)? Do sappers will try to dig aroun that place? Maybe danger zones will be created around player made buildings only? It looks there is no way to make it easy and less resource eating. I think Tynan should make EMP weapons instead these nasty sappers...

[NemesisN]

Opinion: I can deal with sappers tunneling into my mountain base because I made it close too the mountain edge. However, I really don't feel that sappers should be aware of undiscovered rooms or undiscovered open-sky pockets.

Suggestion: If sappers' knowledge of undiscovered mountains won't be changed then I request that the player gets some kind of nifty tool to scan a small section of mountain to reveal what's inside. Such a tool would be available only from traders or locked behind a research wall.

I agree with this

[ctgill]

Opinion: I can deal with sappers tunneling into my mountain base because I made it close too the mountain edge. However, I really don't feel that sappers should be aware of undiscovered rooms or undiscovered open-sky pockets.

Suggestion: If sappers' knowledge of undiscovered mountains won't be changed then I request that the player gets some kind of nifty tool to scan a small section of mountain to reveal what's inside. Such a tool would be available only from traders or locked behind a research wall.

I agree with this

A researchable mountain sonar thinger? (I'm a very technical man clearly.) that one places right up against the mountain yet uses a Buttfkton of power? (I also do believe that's a standard unit of measurement) that would then scan x blocks into the mountain? detecting maybe valuable metals and or ore pockets? BUT SURPRISE! Some ancient hibernation rooms are shielded to look like nothing more than mere solid rock? oh ho ho. Pesky ancients. 

[zandadoum]

Some ancient hibernation rooms are shielded to look like nothing more than mere solid rock? oh ho ho. Pesky ancients.

ancient rooms deep inside a mountain never made much sense to me... how did they get there, if there was no access, no corridor, no nothing?
i understand corridors can collapse over the millenia, but seeing how all ancient rooms have nice floors and good material walls, are you telling me they didn't use the same materials for their corridors? so why are there no trace of it anywhere?

[A Friend]

Some ancient hibernation rooms are shielded to look like nothing more than mere solid rock? oh ho ho. Pesky ancients.

ancient rooms deep inside a mountain never made much sense to me... how did they get there, if there was no access, no corridor, no nothing?
i understand corridors can collapse over the millenia, but seeing how all ancient rooms have nice floors and good material walls, are you telling me they didn't use the same materials for their corridors? so why are there no trace of it anywhere?

I remember reading some lore. I believe those where sections of spaceships that crashed into the mountains eons ago. Perhaps it was a ditch or thin roofed cave and the mountain simply covered it with rockslides over time.