Toilets?

[rexx1888]

not wanting to simulate stuff because it might add complexity to the game is daft.

every alpha adds complexity, and the game has only improved with every alpha. water as a resource could be annoying to implement, but it adds a bunch of depth to the game. so does all that other stuff. as it is, i spend large chunks of time staring at a screen with very little of import happening... things happen, they just arent all that important. the decisions making is the fun stuff, and you cant make decisions without depth.

admittedly, if were gonna add complexity, pawn pooping probably isnt at the top of my wish list lol

[SaintD]

The paramount question is always, "What does it add to the gameplay?"

At the moment it appears to simply be added complexity for the sake of added complexity, which is terrible design. The game is an abstraction, taking the broad strokes of things your colonists need to survive and concentrating on that....even in this regard they still only eat once per day, but that's fine because the need for sustenance is abstracted to keep the gameplay effective. They will go looking for food about once per day, and you have to make sure it is provided. Bam. Done.

Adding toilet requirements is pointless. It doesn't enhance the gameplay or provide an interesting challenge to basic survival like maintaining a food supply does. All we get is another Sims style bar compelling me to designate The Shitting Zone before I subsequently forget about it forever. Except now and then to be annoyed at the meaningless waste of already abstracted time in the game that's taken by the laborious journey to Fulfill The Extraneous Sims Needs Bar.

Our colonists need to take a dump the same way Captain Picard does; it's presumably something he does, but it doesn't bloody matter to the story.

[LouisTBR]

Ok. There seems to be conflicted views here! First off, the thing with it drifting towards Sims is definitely not something I want for the game. Don't get me wrong, I love the Sims series (Up until Sims 3, Sims 4 sucks!), but it doesn't fit in Rimworld no matter how much you try. Second, the micromanagement. Please explain. I don't get why adding in water would be too much of an issue for players, as we have already dealt with power being implemented, and building a basic toilet can't hurt you. You wouldn't need to micromanage, just make it like blood. If it isn't bandaged (peed, in this case!) then it goes on the floor! This would make an actual reason to add one in. Next, the colonists would do it on the basis of maybe once a day, and take about as much time as it takes to cremate a body. And, for the sake of only adding it in for complexity, isn't that what Alpha 10 was? The joy system doesn't add anything fun to the game, it just adds more time and effort to fulfil. We have coped with this, why can't we cope with something as simple as toilets?

[Toggle]

Because waste management is different from joy management.

[SaintD]

The joy system doesn't add anything fun to the game, it just adds more time and effort to fulfil. We have coped with this, why can't we cope with something as simple as toilets?

The joy system abstracts the mental health of your colonists and their existence as people, as opposed to robotic automatons who live only for the glory of the big giant pointer that rules their lives. If anything, the joy system makes adding toilets and whatnot to the game even more irrelevant. It smooshes together the general idea that your goons need time off from work because they're people and not robots. Adding further intricate detail to the fact they need time to do things other than work is needless.

You're not answering the question of what this adds to the game, besides some vague allusion to water systems. A water system as a necessity of crafting and as part of the food system is blatantly obvious in what it adds to the gameplay. Finding water, accessing it, and defending the supply for various food, crafting, and growing purposes makes sense as a gameplay addition, one which would further define certain starts (deserts become hell). But this isn't about a hypothetical water system, this is about toilets and pooping. Even with a water system, this is a thing that adds no interesting mechanisms or concerns to gameplay, it's just....there. It's a little irritation which is meaningless and exists only for the sake of it.

Rimworld already runs on abstractions, and you're steadfastly refusing to provide any good reason why dumping is something that should be taken out of the abstraction and given its own specific detail.

[LouisTBR]

SaintD, joy, as you said, highlights colonists existence as people. So, we constantly go on walks and play pool and horseshoes, but we never use the toilet? You have basically just contradicted yourself by saying that joy is only in the game to make the colonists more relatable to real life. This is exactly what toilets will do.

[Haecriver]

I think adding toilets is a good idea too. (and a water system will arrive soon or later I'm sure of that)
Using toilets will give a mood bonus to colonnists and if there aren't any toilets pawns will just do their thing in the dumping zone.

[FMJ Penguin]

I'm game for sure but there is gonna come a point where ither we'll need much much longer days just so our colonists can accomplish anything of worth or a complete job/time re-balancing. Joy and pee and poo and babies and pets and sexy sexy and pew pew and drama oh my..... not enough time in a RW day for all that fun haha.

So I guess I can see Zombie's point but it's hard to argue with wanting the basics of a survival manager in a survival game..... would really like to see at least a thirst need. That line keeps getting further and further away 

[A Friend]

I remember there being a mod for this. I dunno if it's up to date but it exists out there. Try nudging the creator for updates. Never tried it myself so I can't say exactly if toilets are something worth adding to the game. I'm pretty meh about this idea.

Then it gets implemented along with specific sculptures about it.

The Sitting Man
Beauty - 1024
The sculpture depicts Colonist McColon sitting on a golden toilet with a pale and horrified expression. There is a lack of toilet paper on the side. The art suggests the concept of hardship and suffering. Colonist McColon can be seen reaching for his gun.

[madman313]

They can pee on rocks and trees

[b0rsuk]

Not until my colonists start washing their hands!!!

[Lady Wolf]

Bathrooms sound like an intriguing idea, but like others have said, the days already seem a bit too short to accomplish a whole lot as it is, adding in another forced time sink activity feels kind of pointless to me. (And reminds me of the bladder busting scenes from the Sims when you keep them too busy for a pee break.)

That said I would like to see not just toilets but also showers/baths in the game as joy objects since it would help to make bases feel complete, and then their use would be scripted as one of the random "joy" task colonists take, meaning they'll occasionaly go bathe or pee instead of playing horseshoes or chess and, giving us bathrooms that are used without sucking up more of a colonists day.

[Johnny Masters]

I'll just chime in because I like the topic and upping the sim factor: Yes to toilets.

Btw, just to point out a huge [mis]assumption: No, adding a system like bladder doesn't in any way or circumstance imply the need to develop another system. No where in gaming this is a thing, EVERYTHING is modular and, like pointed out, depends on what is (or should) be good to gameplay-theme of the game.

Then there's the "too many needs+microing" argument. Although i'm against having to do extra dumb labor, managing stuff isn't one of them. After all, this game isn't a builder or a combat rts, its a survival managment game. The hybrid nature does bring some confusion to the mix, like people being odd against the joy system because their pawns would spend less time being brainless robots amassing resources (go figure). So, imo, rimworld profits for whatever system that adds to the challenge of making it feel like a survival game where i can manage stuff. Yes, waste isn't pretty, but its a real challenge.

That said, the sims was pretty annoying on how needy the lil bitches were, always whinning and wetting themselves, spending a whole hour just to eating a fucking cereal or taking a shower. Goes without saying that should a toilet/hygiene system comes a day-tick balance would follow.

A good compromise that i've been thinking and that Lady Wolf beat me to it, is using the already in place joy system to introduce bladder and hygiene. Not having a toilet only means that pawn wouln'd have to walk to a bush to relieve himself, possibly getting joy/mood from a confortable seat amidst a bad situation. Same for a shower, although a skinny dipping in the local lake should still be a possibility heh. (although a separate system specially for waste wouldn't be a...waste).

Some people might not get it, but the simple fact that there's a usable restroom makes a whole base a lot more believable. Watching pawns go to the bathroom might not produce any palpable benefit, like mining steel, but seeing how lively this makes things is worth it, and believe me thats fun.

[LouisTBR]

Good ideas, Wolf!

[shentino]

So, colonists need joy, but never get the urge to take a pee? Shouldn't there be a 'Bowels' happiness in their needs, just for realism! LOL

This is not Prison Architect