Do Bionics actually make you weak?

[Hellandlife]

Hi Tynan, or others.

I've been reading in a few posts. That if you replace People with bionic parts the total health (number of hit parts) actually decreases. Is this true? e.g. native arm=5 digits,1 hand 1 shoulder 1 arm.
Bionic=Bionic arm, meaning 1.

Is this a planned feature? Should bionic parts allow the same type of hitboxing? discuss.

[Ykara]

Yeah, I'd like to know that, too. I'm really not sure how hits are calculated.

[Goo Poni]

From my limited knowledge of the mechanics, replacing body parts, limbs especially with so many sub parts would result in less total health, but as a limb seems to take damage regardless of whether a subpart inside that limb does, I'm not sure it really matters. I could be totally talking out my arse right now, my analysis is based only on observation and looking at the bodyparts definitions for some creatures.

[Mikhail Reign]

Well my experience isn't so much that bionics make you 'Weaker', but that they give you less 'saves'.

Currently when a bullet hits a colonist there is a random chance on what it hits. If a bullet reduces the bullet reduces the HP of a part to 0 that part is destroyed. Currently there are a few parts that can result in insta death - a destroyed brain, heart, liver, torso and neck will spell the end to your colonis. If I remember correctly bionics have higher HP then regular parts, so a bionic heart will take more of a beating then a regular one, which works out as exprected. Currently a regular arm has at least 7 'hitboxses' (5 fingers, bones in the arm). If you propped a arm against a wall and shot at, it would probably take a while to be destroyed as each bullet could break a bone or damage a finger. If you did the same thing with a bionic arm, it would be destroyed sooner as there is only one 'hitbox' - the arm it's self.

This is the problem with bionics. The way combat mechanics works is each time a colonist is hit a damage roll is applied to a random body piece. By installing bionic limbs you make hot damage pool smaller, increasing the chance that a bullet will damage something important instead of taking of a toe.

[Goldenglade]

Currently there are a few parts that can result in insta death - a destroyed brain, heart, liver, torso and neck will spell the end to your colonis.

true except for the liver heart and lung can actually be replaced if you get to them quick enough... (lung being an exception because you know... 2 and they just never fully recover until after it's replaced.

[Too-DAMN-Much]

Well my experience isn't so much that bionics make you 'Weaker', but that they give you less 'saves'.

Currently when a bullet hits a colonist there is a random chance on what it hits. If a bullet reduces the bullet reduces the HP of a part to 0 that part is destroyed. Currently there are a few parts that can result in insta death - a destroyed brain, heart, liver, torso and neck will spell the end to your colonis. If I remember correctly bionics have higher HP then regular parts, so a bionic heart will take more of a beating then a regular one, which works out as exprected. Currently a regular arm has at least 7 'hitboxses' (5 fingers, bones in the arm). If you propped a arm against a wall and shot at, it would probably take a while to be destroyed as each bullet could break a bone or damage a finger. If you did the same thing with a bionic arm, it would be destroyed sooner as there is only one 'hitbox' - the arm it's self.

This is the problem with bionics. The way combat mechanics works is each time a colonist is hit a damage roll is applied to a random body piece. By installing bionic limbs you make hot damage pool smaller, increasing the chance that a bullet will damage something important instead of taking of a toe.

i have to wonder at that middle paragraph, isn't that more or less what makes sense? personally if i had a bionic arm that i knew was tougher/stronger and able to take more punishment i'd be a lot more willing to risk that part in favor of still human pieces, i think it makes sense to say that bionic parts are easier to hit as if when need be they could probably shield from or deflect damage that a human part couldn't, even if not, they can be refitted again.

[Hellandlife]

Thanks for getting involved in this.

Ykara your thread gave me this idea.

It would be nice if limbs and bionics worked the same.

[keylocke]

i guess the optimal choice is to only get a bionic limb, when the default limb is already destroyed.

in a long enough timeline, most limbs are gonna get destroyed anyways, assuming that your colonist gets to survive that long. haha.

besides does having bionic eyes have any drawbacks at all?

[Mikhail Reign]

Yeah anything that simply replaces a part piece for piece (eye/heart etc) has no down side. It is only arms and legs, simple they replace an entire limb tree with 'bionic leg' or the like.

The most obvious fix for this is to make bionic parts comprise of multiple pieces so they aren't just 'bionic arm' from the shoulder down, but instead 'shoulder servo', 'elbow electronics' and 'digital digits' (or other more thoughtout names). Functionally they would be exactly the same, still installed in a single operation but instead of replacing the arm, hand and fingers with 'bionic arm', the bionic arm would itself have a tree.

Making it possible for a attached part to have parts of its own would also expand the prostetics possibilities. Off the top of my head, it would make Dr Oc style arm attachments possible my being able to attach "Arm Exo Harness' to the spine of a colonist, and having that harness have arms.

[MultiDavid]

Well my experience isn't so much that bionics make you 'Weaker', but that they give you less 'saves'.

Currently when a bullet hits a colonist there is a random chance on what it hits. If a bullet reduces the bullet reduces the HP of a part to 0 that part is destroyed. Currently there are a few parts that can result in insta death - a destroyed brain, heart, liver, torso and neck will spell the end to your colonis. If I remember correctly bionics have higher HP then regular parts, so a bionic heart will take more of a beating then a regular one, which works out as exprected. Currently a regular arm has at least 7 'hitboxses' (5 fingers, bones in the arm). If you propped a arm against a wall and shot at, it would probably take a while to be destroyed as each bullet could break a bone or damage a finger. If you did the same thing with a bionic arm, it would be destroyed sooner as there is only one 'hitbox' - the arm it's self.

This is the problem with bionics. The way combat mechanics works is each time a colonist is hit a damage roll is applied to a random body piece. By installing bionic limbs you make hot damage pool smaller, increasing the chance that a bullet will damage something important instead of taking of a toe.

You forgot the spine, im 100% sure there is no in-game way to replace a broken spine.

[Too-DAMN-Much]

Yeah anything that simply replaces a part piece for piece (eye/heart etc) has no down side. It is only arms and legs, simple they replace an entire limb tree with 'bionic leg' or the like.

The most obvious fix for this is to make bionic parts comprise of multiple pieces so they aren't just 'bionic arm' from the shoulder down, but instead 'shoulder servo', 'elbow electronics' and 'digital digits' (or other more thoughtout names). Functionally they would be exactly the same, still installed in a single operation but instead of replacing the arm, hand and fingers with 'bionic arm', the bionic arm would itself have a tree.

Making it possible for a attached part to have parts of its own would also expand the prostetics possibilities. Off the top of my head, it would make Dr Oc style arm attachments possible my being able to attach "Arm Exo Harness' to the spine of a colonist, and having that harness have arms.

all my +1 for more complex bionics, i would LOVE to be able to someday have more granularity and control over bionics as a whole.

[Toggle]

See, the bionic arm does in fact have all the parts. It's just not possible to shoot them apart or damage them separately, it all effects the arms in total. As for saying "There's a chance to hit the other parts, with bionics there isn't", there is, it's just as I said, it effects the total. And: Arms have a 6% chance to be hit, shoulders 1%, I think hands 1%, and then everything else is so low, probably 0.1-4% as they just round off to 0%. In total 'arms' have a 10% chance to hit the body, combining them all, so you basically have 4% chance to hit anything besides the arm. It's not much compared to the arm being a lot more useful.

[b0rsuk]

A sniper rifle might hit your finger for 40 damage, and you still lose a finger. If it hits a bionic arm, it's gone. With regular limbs the damage is capped and does not carry over. It's theoretically possible to take 5 sniper rifle shots in a hand, the 6th destroys the arm.

[theapolaustic1]

See, the bionic arm does in fact have all the parts. It's just not possible to shoot them apart or damage them separately, it all effects the arms in total. As for saying "There's a chance to hit the other parts, with bionics there isn't", there is, it's just as I said, it effects the total. And: Arms have a 6% chance to be hit, shoulders 1%, I think hands 1%, and then everything else is so low, probably 0.1-4% as they just round off to 0%. In total 'arms' have a 10% chance to hit the body, combining them all, so you basically have 4% chance to hit anything besides the arm. It's not much compared to the arm being a lot more useful.

This post nailed it, but says it a bit confusingly, so I'll break it down so it's a bit easier to follow for anyone who's lost:

Say that you roll a 100 sided die. Each body part has a chance of being hit, bigger is larger. An arm is 1-10, the head is 11-15, the torso is 16-30. Once a body part is hit, the game then checks if there are smaller parts, then rolls against another list to see what it hit. For example: It rolls a 5. This means it hit your arm. It now rolls again, and 1-10 is your hand, 11-20 is your forearm, etc.

The point is: It doesn't check which part of your arm was hit until after your arm is hit. So getting a bionic arm doesn't increase the risk of getting your liver shot: That chance is exactly the same. What it does do is increase the chance of an arm shot hitting your arm to 100%.

A sniper rifle might hit your finger for 40 damage, and you still lose a finger. If it hits a bionic arm, it's gone. With regular limbs the damage is capped and does not carry over. It's theoretically possible to take 5 sniper rifle shots in a hand, the 6th destroys the arm.

This does mean that this is true, though^ Decide for yourself if that's a discountable risk or real enough to worry about.

If anyone's interested in reading the mechanics further or is still confused: http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Health

Fun related fact: Missing a lung has no negative repercussions for a colonist's health other than them showing up as injured in edb's HUD. Breathing effects nothing in-game mechanically. I am 100% sure this is an oversight (you're telling me that a hole in your lung doesn't make you hard to understand or have trouble walking? Okay) and will be fixed at one point, but for now you know not to be afraid to give the sniper rifle to Ol' One-lung.

[Too-DAMN-Much]

See, the bionic arm does in fact have all the parts. It's just not possible to shoot them apart or damage them separately, it all effects the arms in total. As for saying "There's a chance to hit the other parts, with bionics there isn't", there is, it's just as I said, it effects the total. And: Arms have a 6% chance to be hit, shoulders 1%, I think hands 1%, and then everything else is so low, probably 0.1-4% as they just round off to 0%. In total 'arms' have a 10% chance to hit the body, combining them all, so you basically have 4% chance to hit anything besides the arm. It's not much compared to the arm being a lot more useful.

i was thinking more along the lines of being able to specialize what improvements a bionic grants, maybe an integrated shield and stuff could be used instead of a more mundane "fill in the gaps" type standard part if your colony is rich enough to do so.

thanks for explaining by the way, i do agree i think most only see the simplified way it appears to work and not understand the mechanics.