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Author Topic: Animals die with non-lethal damage  (Read 1743 times)

zenfur

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Animals die with non-lethal damage
« on: September 02, 2015, 01:11:40 PM »

Visible at especially large animals such as thrumbos/elephants. I understand that such mechanic is good for raiders, especially from tribes when there's a lot of them, that even non-lethal damage kills the moment your colonists would be incapacited.

It just does not feel right when it's the same mechanism for animals. Thrumbos and elephants are rare and I often beat them down with army of my colonists armed in bare fists and bruise causing animals to convince them to join my safe and food rich stable where I can attempt to tame them. To my disgust even though I risk lives of my fellow colonists doing that, they often drop dead without any lethal wounds.
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StorymasterQ

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 09:48:27 PM »

Maybe there's a tamed animals limit imposed by the storyteller? Like with colonists?
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Bancheis

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 10:24:16 PM »

There really is no such thing as non-lethal damage. Even weapons designed in real life for the purpose of capturing people alive are called "less than lethal" for the reason being that they still can result in death. Punching things and hitting things with blunt objects can also still result in death from internal bleeding and hemorrhaging, if not from the blunt force trauma itself.

I agree with StorymasterQ though, that there may be some sort of limit to the number of tamed animals that makes it much easier for them to die. Could be worth looking into.
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zenfur

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 08:25:04 AM »

There really is no such thing as non-lethal damage. Even weapons designed in real life for the purpose of capturing people alive are called "less than lethal" for the reason being that they still can result in death. Punching things and hitting things with blunt objects can also still result in death from internal bleeding and hemorrhaging, if not from the blunt force trauma itself.

I agree with StorymasterQ though, that there may be some sort of limit to the number of tamed animals that makes it much easier for them to die. Could be worth looking into.

Non-lethal in this game's terms. My colonists never die from that kind of damage, they become "downed". Good example is heat stroke - when my colonists get to the extreme phase, they get unconscious. When enemies do, they die. They don't need 100% to die.
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Apophis

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 08:38:27 AM »

Maybe there's a tamed animals limit imposed by the storyteller? Like with colonists?

This is not the case, I think, since I have roughly 70 wild boars, and 15 of them are pregnant at the moment. You would think the pregnancy would also decrease in such a case.
Maybe animals simply can also die if the pain is too high? Or if a certain ammount of hit points are removed in total?

All in all, I think this is rather a decision than a bug or an oversight.
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Bancheis

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 08:00:49 PM »

Non-lethal in this game's terms. My colonists never die from that kind of damage, they become "downed". Good example is heat stroke - when my colonists get to the extreme phase, they get unconscious. When enemies do, they die. They don't need 100% to die.
You are pretty lucky then. I have had colonists beaten to death with fists alone by another colonist that went berserk, or from prisoners that have done the same. Maybe you play this on an easier setting than I do.

Heat stroke will kill everyone the same if they are not returned to a cooler temperature environment. Your guys survive because they are probably carried into an air conditioned building. If the enemies die from it, it's probably because they were left out there too long. Heatstroke works the same way as starvation. Remove the cause of the affliction and it will slowly return to normal. I am playing on an ice sheet map right now, so I have the same situations with hypothermia.
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Cimanyd

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2015, 02:17:22 AM »

Anything, colonist, non-colonist or animal, will die under some specific circumstances. A destroyed/removed head, torso, heart, etc. A sickness or infection reaching the point of death before the point of immunity. Heatstroke or hypothermia as mentioned, or toxic buildup (I assume) or blood loss, to 100%.

However, when a non-colonist or animal is incapacitated, it has a chance to immediately die without any of the normal reasons. This is for game balance, I assume, since otherwise you would be able to just incapacitate and capture every enemy with the right weapons. The only time you see downed enemies you can capture is when this didn't happen. It seems like this system doesn't apply to colonists, but does apply to tame animals.

The original post is a suggestion for this not to apply to animals. I agree there's no reason for it to apply to tame animals, much like colonists. I don't know whether it's necessary for animals to keep you from incapacitating many animals in large manhunter packs, much like with enemy humans. I don't think it is, though, since captured/rescued incapacitated former manhunters are no different from that type of animal in the wild. Unlike prisoners, you can't harvest organs from them that you couldn't from the dead, or get full-health clothing as opposed to heavily-damaged-from-death clothing, or "recruit" them any differently than the normal wild ones.

You are pretty lucky then. I have had colonists beaten to death with fists alone by another colonist that went berserk, or from prisoners that have done the same. Maybe you play this on an easier setting than I do.

Your colonists probably got their torso damaged down to 0, instead of just being incapacitated from pain.
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zenfur

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 07:36:49 AM »

Anything, colonist, non-colonist or animal, will die under some specific circumstances. A destroyed/removed head, torso, heart, etc. A sickness or infection reaching the point of death before the point of immunity. Heatstroke or hypothermia as mentioned, or toxic buildup (I assume) or blood loss, to 100%.

However, when a non-colonist or animal is incapacitated, it has a chance to immediately die without any of the normal reasons. This is for game balance, I assume, since otherwise you would be able to just incapacitate and capture every enemy with the right weapons. The only time you see downed enemies you can capture is when this didn't happen. It seems like this system doesn't apply to colonists, but does apply to tame animals.

The original post is a suggestion for this not to apply to animals. I agree there's no reason for it to apply to tame animals, much like colonists. I don't know whether it's necessary for animals to keep you from incapacitating many animals in large manhunter packs, much like with enemy humans. I don't think it is, though, since captured/rescued incapacitated former manhunters are no different from that type of animal in the wild. Unlike prisoners, you can't harvest organs from them that you couldn't from the dead, or get full-health clothing as opposed to heavily-damaged-from-death clothing, or "recruit" them any differently than the normal wild ones.

You are pretty lucky then. I have had colonists beaten to death with fists alone by another colonist that went berserk, or from prisoners that have done the same. Maybe you play this on an easier setting than I do.

Your colonists probably got their torso damaged down to 0, instead of just being incapacitated from pain.

This. Exactly. Beautifully put.
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Bancheis

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 12:21:53 PM »

Alright. Then I suppose since you agree, we can finally put the debate about non-lethal damage to rest.
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ison

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Re: Animals die with non-lethal damage
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 09:49:40 AM »

There is a random chance for non-colony animals to die when they are downed for balance reasons, so it's working as intended. Locking.
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