More Turret Types

[GC13]

So basicly your problem should be countered by bigger/better equipped/statted raiders

Not really. I mean, it could be, but doesn't it strike you as silly that practically the entire colony comes out to play with the raiders? Only the very few with Incapable: Violent stay out of it. I mean, think about the western fiction we're trying to emulate: even in the worst attacks the women and children are still away from the fighting. In Magnificent Seven, only a few guys could do the work initially.

There are probably too many raiders on the larger raids, but I still outnumber them every time because everyone has at least a mid-end weapon to bring to the party.

[Spike]

Basically, the problem is balance.  But this is pre alpha, so it's probably a better thing for the basic game concepts to be refined and expanded before worrying too much about how to make raiders tougher.

[Semmy]

So basicly your problem should be countered by bigger/better equipped/statted raiders

Not really. I mean, it could be, but doesn't it strike you as silly that practically the entire colony comes out to play with the raiders? Only the very few with Incapable: Violent stay out of it. I mean, think about the western fiction we're trying to emulate: even in the worst attacks the women and children are still away from the fighting. In Magnificent Seven, only a few guys could do the work initially.

There are probably too many raiders on the larger raids, but I still outnumber them every time because everyone has at least a mid-end weapon to bring to the party.

So what you are trying to imply is that something should prevent the entire colony from joining the defences.

For instance somebody having a trait that makes him to scared or such shitty gunskills that he wont hit unless the raider is withing melee range.
Handing a person like that grenades should be fucking dangerous.

[GC13]

Yeah Spike, one point of the pre-alpha is to find features that need to be added.

Yes Semmy, I think further restrictions on who's useful in a fight need to be added. The fight sizes get silly otherwise (and hard to manage: see the trouble I have just getting them to line up?). If superior combatants were less likely to get hurt (and enemies could tell who the easier targets were) then I think that would help: why send out the people who are going to get chewed up without laying out much hurt unless it's really serious?

I mean, otherwise what's the use of getting some Assassin with 13 Shooting and having her do nothing but wander the colony when there's no killing to be done if my dude with the 13 Growing and 5 Shooting isn't that much less useful in a fight but can participate in the colony for the other 95% of the time?

[Semmy]

Yeah Spike, one point of the pre-alpha is to find features that need to be added.

Yes Semmy, I think further restrictions on who's useful in a fight need to be added. The fight sizes get silly otherwise (and hard to manage: see the trouble I have just getting them to line up?). If superior combatants were less likely to get hurt (and enemies could tell who the easier targets were) then I think that would help: why send out the people who are going to get chewed up without laying out much hurt unless it's really serious?

I mean, otherwise what's the use of getting some Assassin with 13 Shooting and having her do nothing but wander the colony when there's no killing to be done if my dude with the 13 Growing and 5 Shooting isn't that much less useful in a fight but can participate in the colony for the other 95% of the time?

Now you make me wonder about something else.

Imagine being able to use everybody withing the fight but having skill have a bigger impact so a lvl 5 shooty doesnt hit shit while a lvl 13 shooty is awsome.
But when you use somebody and your colonist see lesser trained civilians die in a gunfight they need to make morale checks.
This could cause your lines to waver and make openings for the raiders to flank you.

Imagine 5 of those farmers with you hitting about the same between the 5 of them as the 1 soldier hits.
1 of them gets shot and a tantrum (like in df) happens under the rest of them. And suddenly your soldier is all alone or he also fails his morale check.

[Hypolite]

Even the colonists incapable of being violent can bear arms and be drafted right now. I don't know what the limitation is exactly 

[Semmy]

Even the colonists incapable of being violent can bear arms and be drafted right now. I don't know what the limitation is exactly 

Tynan could you please explain these mechanics?

[British]

(...) doesn't it strike you as silly that practically the entire colony comes out to play with the raiders? Only the very few with Incapable: Violent stay out of it. I mean, think about the western fiction we're trying to emulate: even in the worst attacks the women and children are still away from the fighting.

You also have to take into account that (at least at the beginning) your colonists are fighting for their lives on a stranded planet, and no help is coming.
So no, it doesn't strike me as silly that just about any colonist may take part in a shooting.
Now, regarding you outnumbering the raiders, that feels more like an AI issue (not being a big enough threat to keep things interesting).

About restricting the possibility of drafting every single colonist, it would have to be carefully programmed/tweaked/thought out, because I'd find it quite frustrating if a bunch of my colonists stop doing what I ask too often.
It's ok if one says "I'm against violence, you can't draft me" (though drafting is not just about fighting, but that's not my point), but is it if a significant number refuse because "there's enough people fighting already, so we're not defending the colony we helped build and maintain with our own blood" ?

[SpaceEatingTrex]

From a general game design perspective, I think it's better to adapt the game mechanics rather than take functionality away from the player. Not letting colonists fight might be frustrating to players if they feel like they ought to be able to do something but can't. If raids being made arbitrary is a problem, hopefully there would be a better way to address it.

There have been other threads and ideas posted about raids and enemies, so the raiding aspect of the game will probably get more expansive and in depth as development continues.

[GC13]

Why would you artificially limit the number of colonists who can be drafted? It makes much more sense to adjust the game mechanics such that it is unwise to draft colonists you don't need to keep the colony safe. If low combat skill made them more likely to get hurt (and therefore potentially killed), you wouldn't needlessly risk productive citizens in fights you know you're going to win anyway.

[Pheanox]

This conversation reminds me a little bit of the Firefly episode "Heart of Gold".  Uh, I don't know if I should give spoilers, since Firefly's been out since forever, but basically everyone that worked long and hard to build up their own piece of land comes out to fight, including people that have absolutely no clue on how to shoot.  Since this is based on westerns, and Firefly, I prefer that interpretation!

As for turrets, I think multiple turret types would be cool.  I don't want to see RimWorld turn in to a tower defense game, but there should be other choices of turrets.  And rebalancing of turrets as well.  They should have less damage, or much higher power drain on them.  I like that they are fairly weak and explode, makes them slightly risky at least.

Honestly I think just having turrets should require an initial research investment, and that there should be a small research tree for them.  Perhaps to make them more energy efficient, shoot more bullets, or new types like a laser turret that needs to charge up before each shot, or a grenade shooting turret.

[Ontogenesis]

+1 on different turret types.

In regards to making them more difficult, I would suggest:
> More specialised types. I.e. Shotgun (short range only), Machine gun (Low accuracy), High velocity (High accuracy, low firing rate) - so that every type has weakness.
> Limitied rotating range - they do not have 360 rotation, thus can be flanked.
> Anti-turret specialised raiders - have extra scripts that are aware of above weaknesses and work accordingly, or perhaps carry weapons strong against turrets and weak against colonists, or something like that.

[Gazz]

IMO, may of the suggested "auto turrets" are just too good.
Too perfect. Perfect systems suck when you try to balance them.

I would suggest: a semi-automatic mortar turret.

• A bit more range than a direct fire one.
  
  
• Explosive shell. AOE on impact.
  
  
• A trigger area.
  As long as something is in that area, the turret keeps firing.
  
  
• A target area. This is where the turret is aimed.

Due to the fact that it has a major drawback - no fully automatic destruction of anything that moves - it can be allowed to be powerful... and fun.

[NephilimNexus]

Turret Defense Tech Tree:

Begin with Automated Turret (current)
Branch: Armored Turrets (hitpoints), High Power Turrets (damage), Sniper Turrets (range).
Multiple levels give ever increasing stats.
Multiple branches cross-pollinate into hybrid turrets that give multiple bonuses.

High levels open new branches to new weapon types for turret: Explosive, flame, stun.