Medieval Factions

Livingston I Presume · October 29, 2015, 05:38:55 PM

There are a lot of back stories about Medieval Factions, from Knights to Farm Oafs. And I'd imagine they'd be quite a common faction on a Rimworld (Or as common as anything can get on a Rimworld). I think they'd be a great addition to the game, to both add more depth and gameplay. Maybe they're more mod territory, and that's cool.
I'm imagining a few of new features they could bring to the game, for instance they'd have to have chain mail and plate armors for the Knights and what not, so there's something else Smiths could do, armor making. So when they attacked there'd be Knight shock troops with Long Swords and steel armor. And then there's the peasant militia trying to over run you, much like tribals and of course some dudes with long bows, or maybe introduce crossbows?

Plate and mail armors would only protect you from melee attacks, attacks from guns and bows would be quite dangerous and still very lethal. Overall besides adding new faction, back stories and armor I'm not sure what else it could add. Nothing too complicated I'm hoping just small little additions to compliment a Rimworld Medieval setting.

I suppose the only thing that's really missing if you wanted to have a medieval castle is the armors, but I still think they'd be a cool faction to fight and have as friends

LouisTBR · October 30, 2015, 02:41:44 PM

Yeah, I agree with the whole bows & arrows thing, but when the current game is set in 5500, wouldn't they all be extinct? Even now, in 2015, there's no medieval colonies. I like the whole idea, but I don't think it suits Rimworld much...

cultist · October 31, 2015, 08:40:55 AM

Quote from: Louisthebadassrimworlder on October 30, 2015, 02:41:44 PM
Yeah, I agree with the whole bows & arrows thing, but when the current game is set in 5500, wouldn't they all be extinct? Even now, in 2015, there's no medieval colonies. I like the whole idea, but I don't think it suits Rimworld much...

One important detail about the Rimwold universe is that FTL travel does not exist (yet). This means that traveling between stars can take up to centuries, even millenia. Because of this, an entire civilization can rise and fall on the planet you are traveling to, and you might arrive on a dead planet, or one that has suffered centuries of technological setbacks, due to war or natural disasters.

So yes, medieval planets and medieval factions do exist, as do any other technological level between them and glitterworlds.

ironstar · November 29, 2015, 07:26:41 PM

Quote from: cultist on October 31, 2015, 08:40:55 AM
One important detail about the Rimwold universe is that FTL travel does not exist (yet).

*unnecessary thread bump*

that's another lore question I've been wondering about. according to the fiction primer, physicists spent "thousands of years of study" on the subject. did they determine that FTL was conclusively impossible, or just hopelessly impractical? I know in WH40K, humanity doesn't discover the Warp for nearly sixteen thousand years, so maybe the same will apply to the humans in Rimworld?

I hear transcendent worlds have technology unfathomable to human minds. is it possible that the people on these worlds have found a way to make FTL work, but they don't have a use for it anymore? or, again, is FTL conclusively impossible and not even transcendent worlds can change this fact?

Kajin · November 29, 2015, 07:56:41 PM

Would be awesome to get assaulted by a bunch of medieval knights with iron weapons and shields and catapults.

REMworlder · November 30, 2015, 04:00:41 AM

Just thinking in broad strokes, what would make medievals distinct from tribals? Especially in combat, both factions seem to be based around whacking colonist limbs off or turning them into arrow'd pincushions.

We can assume they live in majestic castles, use some sort of feudal system, and have swangin feasts, but that's all stuff the player wouldn't really see in gameplay.

Kajin · November 30, 2015, 06:21:32 AM

Quality of weapons would definitely be much higher, plus they could lay siege using trebuchet or catapult type emplacements. I'd also expect them to be wearing metallic body armor and helmets and have access to fine crafted clothing. More swords and spears and crossbows over clubs and regular bows. Definitely a different sort of threat from a tribal group with different drops and capabilities. Maybe not as bad as a well armed raider group, but something to sit up and take notice of.

A Friend · November 30, 2015, 07:05:49 AM

TBH, I think Tribals should be less swarmy swarm swarm and more of an ambush and poison needles sort of group. Medieval factions should be the one with the swarmy swarm tactics with the occasional mortar/catapult support.

Alistaire · November 30, 2015, 08:54:35 AM

Medievals could be more of a tank - bullets don't penetrate steel plate quite as easily as they do tribal clothing, their crossbows would be able to
do more damage to even power armor and when horses get introduced they'd be a nice faction to mount those.

Toggle · November 30, 2015, 11:53:41 AM

Quote from: Alistaire on November 30, 2015, 08:54:35 AM
Medievals could be more of a tank - bullets don't penetrate steel plate quite as easily as they do tribal clothing, their crossbows would be able to
do more damage to even power armor and when horses get introduced they'd be a nice faction to mount those.

Indeed. And they'd have the negatives from it too, like crossbows take around 30-45 seconds to reload if I recall? I may be wrong. But the armour would also lower their movement speed.

NoImageAvailable · November 30, 2015, 11:57:51 AM

Quote from: Alistaire on November 30, 2015, 08:54:35 AM
Medievals could be more of a tank - bullets don't penetrate steel plate quite as easily as they do tribal clothing, their crossbows would be able to
do more damage to even power armor and when horses get introduced they'd be a nice faction to mount those.

Wouldn't that just make them an intermediate between tribals and pirates though? Higher numbers than pirates, better gear than tribals?

b0rsuk · November 30, 2015, 02:59:25 PM

It would be hard to make them functionally distinct from tribals. Bows, swords, spears, maces ? Tribals have them. You could add shields, but that's just more HP and there's no reason tribals shouldn't have.

Maybe horseback knights ? Low-tech siege engines.

If we interpret "medieval" as "medieval Europe", then those factions might be obsessed with religion, honor and proper behaviour. "Oh my god!" was a terrible curse in medieval, because god and religion was taboo. Knights liked to duel each other, and the place of battle between armies was often determined by an agreement. When Huns reached Europe, it was a culture shock for feudal rulers because they played dirty.

Those differences are mostly on the squad or army level. The organizational side of things. It's difficult to represent in a game.

Toggle · November 30, 2015, 03:21:15 PM

Yeah. Without mounts or a way to see anything other then just raiders, it would be just armoured tribals with crossbows. Maybe more in the future, muskets and armour? The thing is at least they'd be more reasonable to recruit as a difference, they'd also have their own versions of backstories like tribals do. Currently though, as a mod maybe, but as a core game addition it would be some months for it to be considered.

Limdood · November 30, 2015, 08:06:42 PM

as far as better quality gear goes....no. Why would medieval factions be chock full of superior and excellent swords when my electric powered smithing bench can't even reliably do that with a "strong expert" in the craft?

Metal armor is functionally similar to clothing as far as bullets go...in that it does next to nothing. In fact, the reason soldiers stopped wearing armor historically was due to the prevalence of firearms. Slowing yourself down in maximillian plate armor was stupid if it allowed your opponent to get another volley of musket fire off at you (not to mention it was horrifically expensive). Unfortunately, in this game, sword damage and bullet damage are also functionally identical. They both deal sharp damage.

In medieval society, nearly no one was heavily armed and armored. By nearly no one, i mean in relation to the rest of the combatants in a medieval clash. The people in the full plate armor? those were the rich knights....each one of them had a few hundred unarmored peasants with spears, pitchforks, and maybe a simple wooden shield. The common soldiers of the day usually had a sword, a shield (usually wooden), and MAYBE a leather cap and hauberk (torso armor). The archers generally had a short sword, bow, and whatever armor they could scavenge, often only a helmet, if that.

A "functional" medieval raid would consist of a single heavily armored figure on horseback and some 20-30 unarmored mooks with shoddy spears alongside another 10 or so unarmored archers who break and flee at the first sign of melee combat with them.

Alternatively it could be a medieval "army" raid of several footsoldiers with the aforementioned leather armor (which is just leather-quality clothes in rimworld...) and a longsword or gladius and shield...they'd be supported by an even number of archers who would shoot volley fire and avoid anyone attempting to close with them.

Functionally, a medieval raid would still FEEL almost exactly like a tribal raid, at least until some semblance of stylized tactics are added, at which point tribals would act much more individually and hit-and-run, avoiding full-on shootouts or slugfests, while the medieval raids would either be a mass rush of peasants under volleyed arrowfire (tribals right now) or a "shield wall" of sword/spearmen advancing with concentrated archer support behind them.

Kajin · November 30, 2015, 09:55:06 PM

Quote from: Limdood on November 30, 2015, 08:06:42 PM
as far as better quality gear goes....no. Why would medieval factions be chock full of superior and excellent swords when my electric powered smithing bench can't even reliably do that with a "strong expert" in the craft?

When I was talking about higher quality earlier I more or less meant "relative to what tribals have". A medieval society is going to have access to higher quality crafting tools over a tribal society and as such will have better equipment overall.

QuoteMetal armor is functionally similar to clothing as far as bullets go...in that it does next to nothing. In fact, the reason soldiers stopped wearing armor historically was due to the prevalence of firearms. Slowing yourself down in maximillian plate armor was stupid if it allowed your opponent to get another volley of musket fire off at you (not to mention it was horrifically expensive). Unfortunately, in this game, sword damage and bullet damage are also functionally identical. They both deal sharp damage.

Normally I'd agree with you, but we already have armor in the game. Armor vests and power armor both function almost identically to what you describe, and yet they're in the game and mitigate damage to an extent. Not enough to prevent someone from dying, but it definitely helps to an extent. I figure full platemail would simply be a middling of stats between a regular armor vest and full power armor. With what we have in the game, it fits quite well.

QuoteIn medieval society, nearly no one was heavily armed and armored. By nearly no one, i mean in relation to the rest of the combatants in a medieval clash. The people in the full plate armor? those were the rich knights....each one of them had a few hundred unarmored peasants with spears, pitchforks, and maybe a simple wooden shield. The common soldiers of the day usually had a sword, a shield (usually wooden), and MAYBE a leather cap and hauberk (torso armor). The archers generally had a short sword, bow, and whatever armor they could scavenge, often only a helmet, if that.

A "functional" medieval raid would consist of a single heavily armored figure on horseback and some 20-30 unarmored mooks with shoddy spears alongside another 10 or so unarmored archers who break and flee at the first sign of melee combat with them.

Games aren't complete one hundred percent representations of reality. I'd say this could be fudged a bit. Any historians that cry at the marginally unfaithful representation of the era of knights are an acceptable loss.

QuoteAlternatively it could be a medieval "army" raid of several footsoldiers with the aforementioned leather armor (which is just leather-quality clothes in rimworld...) and a longsword or gladius and shield...they'd be supported by an even number of archers who would shoot volley fire and avoid anyone attempting to close with them.

Functionally, a medieval raid would still FEEL almost exactly like a tribal raid, at least until some semblance of stylized tactics are added, at which point tribals would act much more individually and hit-and-run, avoiding full-on shootouts or slugfests, while the medieval raids would either be a mass rush of peasants under volleyed arrowfire (tribals right now) or a "shield wall" of sword/spearmen advancing with concentrated archer support behind them.

Even if this were the case, I'd still say go ahead and add it in purely for flavor. It'd make the game world feel more diverse and would get rid of the mild disconnect that comes from the gameplay and story segregation you might get from having a lot of pawns with medieval backgrounds but no medieval societies to draw from. Ultimately I don't see any reason why medieval factions SHOULDN'T be added.