[A12d][ModPack] The ModVarietyPack

Started by simon-82, November 01, 2015, 02:28:54 PM

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Nanao-kun

I've got an odd problem where one of my colonists doesn't show up on the colonist bar. Or the restrictions tab, outfits tab, etc. She does however, show up in the work tab and stuff.

I think it happened after she returned from one of those quests, but I then reloaded to before she came back because she didn't get anything nice. So when she came back after the reload, this bug happened. Restarting the game doesn't seem to help.

Cherna

Is it possible to install Mind Altering Device https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16743.0 on MVP? Keep on getting some errors with marble floor turns into sand and some visual glitches no matter where I put it in mod list.

potter3390

Hi Everyone, first off all, thanks for this compilation, it's amaizing.
I use MAI from the beginig but lately i only use them for simple task, because of balance. Then apeard the cleaning and hauling bot, and since them forget about mai. I also like the droid from mechanics mods, the only do one activity, and if i remember right they didn't gain experience.
On another side, i have two question if i can.
First i there a reason for not includind man controlling turrets? i find them very useull, i like them as a cheap version of automatic for defense.
Sencond, the hotkey from the mod Micelanius ant the computer for calling the settlers where very usefull. Especially the option for undraft them with the key 0. Can i add the micelenius mod vaniila edition to the mods?

Britnoth

QuoteThe good ones do require an AI core to activate.

Implying that ones without are somehow bad?

The main problem is they circumvent the existing game mechanics, giving you extra people without needing to capture and recruit prisoners. AI storytellers are coded to reduce new recruits as you get larger, but this mod makes that totally irrelevant.

QuoteMood mechanic is "redundant" as soon as you install a joywire on all your colonists,

And have everyone with poor medical care, work rate, shooting accuracy etc from their reduced consciousness? I never use joywires. Far easier ways to remove bad moods than spend 1500 silver on an item that cripples my colonist until I spend another 10k on them.

Also, if you think +20 mood is the same as +100 mood, I'm not sure what to say to that either.

QuoteYou can maybe buy an awful one for 1.5k silver, a master or legendary is like 20-30k silver.

Bonuses are the same regardless of quality. Unless you remove infusion mod, buying low quality gear is even better as you buy many more hoping for good infusion bonuses. +40% walk speed? raise armour stat from 25% to 60%? Perfectly reasonable RNG.  ;)

Astasia

Quote from: Britnoth on February 18, 2016, 04:58:52 PMImplying that ones without are somehow bad?

The main problem is they circumvent the existing game mechanics, giving you extra people without needing to capture and recruit prisoners. AI storytellers are coded to reduce new recruits as you get larger, but this mod makes that totally irrelevant.


I haven't even tried the ones without the core. It would be easy enough to remove the non-enhanced activation option if there was a balance concern. I could understand your complaint about bypassing game mechanics if it was somehow more difficult to get colonists the normal way, but it's not. It's ridiculously easy to fill a prison and recruit anyone you want, or recruit people with hospitality, or buy slaves, etc. It's not "bypassing" mechanics, it's adding alternate mechanics. Outside of specific instances where I just want androids for RP reasons, or I have a colony where "normal people" don't fit in well (canibal psycopath colonies for example), I would say the 500 steel alone isn't worth making the MAI over the tremendous ease of getting colonists other ways.


Quote from: Britnoth on February 18, 2016, 04:58:52 PMAnd have everyone with poor medical care, work rate, shooting accuracy etc from their reduced consciousness? I never use joywires. Far easier ways to remove bad moods than spend 1500 silver on an item that cripples my colonist until I spend another 10k on them.

Also, if you think +20 mood is the same as +100 mood, I'm not sure what to say to that either.


It's +25 mood for a -20% consciousness hit, which is like a -5-10% hit to some stats that rely on it, but the extra mood more than makes up for those stats, with like a 10-20% stat boost from positive mood. It's rather difficult to impact colonist mood so severely that a joywire doesn't keep them happy at all times. The joywire is a straight up boost to colonist effectiveness, even if you are already keeping them mostly happy.


Quote from: Britnoth on February 18, 2016, 04:58:52 PMBonuses are the same regardless of quality. Unless you remove infusion mod, buying low quality gear is even better as you buy many more hoping for good infusion bonuses. +40% walk speed? raise armour stat from 25% to 60%? Perfectly reasonable RNG.  ;)


Quality effects damage reduction, so low quality marksman "armor" for example might as well be clothes. We have a large selection of craftable clothes with various effects, including aim time reduction and accuracy boosts. My issue is with having a hard time getting armor.

I do play without infusion.

roy2x

I just installed the modpack and is it normal that I cannot make any normal beds? I only have the option to make either a bed out of planks+furs and guest beds.

WinterFlare

@roy2x That's completely normal, you need Construction 1 > Furniture in order to make Cloth Beds, and higher tiers make even better beds.

Fluffy (l2032)

@Britnoth: Infusion chances are affected by gear quality, a legendary piece is almost certain to have two of the rarer infusions, while poor gear has only a small chance to have infusions, and the infusions will likely be less rare. Not sure how the math works out, buying bulk might still be better, but it's something to consider.

@roy2x (and everyone else looking for things): Note that MPV includes CCL, and CCL adds an in-game, auto generated help giving information on all of the recipes, build/craft able items and researches in your game, including all loaded mods. It's a great help to find where a particular modder has decided to hide that item you're looking for ;). You can find it in the toolbar, somewhere on the right. It's labelled 'Help' ;).

Voker57

In the latest version colonists don't seem to be able to use nutrient paste dispenser. It's powered and has a full hopper.

Voker57

Quote from: Voker57 on February 19, 2016, 06:43:00 AM
In the latest version colonists don't seem to be able to use nutrient paste dispenser. It's powered and has a full hopper.

Problem appears to only occur before researching Nutrient Resynthesis.

skullywag

Quote from: Cherna on February 18, 2016, 02:06:57 PM
Is it possible to install Mind Altering Device https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16743.0 on MVP? Keep on getting some errors with marble floor turns into sand and some visual glitches no matter where I put it in mod list.

this sounds like the age old problem of not restarting after visiting the mod page, run your game but dont visit the mod page, if you turn a mod on, restart the game and then do not visit that page.
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

10001110

#701
I never thought of MAI as OP, or a pseudo-colonist that made regular colonists obsolete. They do have benefits and drawbacks.
MAI don't eat, are not affected by mood, and recover lost appendages. Regular MAI will always be noobs, since they start very low skill and have no passions, it takes them a long time to become proficient in something, and once they get proficient enough, it's hard to keep it there because of skill decay. They end up being useful for lowbie crafting jobs and mining, which in turn won't even be necessary anymore - even then, when a base is so big and new mining grounds are so far away, by the time a MAI gets there, it's already time for a recharge. It all comes to a point where, in a survival run, there is just not enough to do anymore. Spending all extra materials manufacturing items just fills in stockpiles and skyrockets wealth, with all its immediate drawbacks, because most merchants will not have enough silver to buy all the surplus, and we probably already have humongous stockpiles of what they have to offer.
I sent all human colonists away in the ship once, and continued the run as a full MAI colony, just to see how it played out. I didn't have to worry about mood, food, mothballed all living quarters and other obsolete facilities. The whole base was a friggin fortress, every room had a 3 thick space wall with embrasures and a corridor for quick relocation, the OTHER problems i came across were not simple to overcome, though, and the end came rather quickly.
MAI get tired, and when they are too tired, or get too damaged, they blow up, and hurt everything nearby. When raids happen back to back, having all the MAI up and running just won't work. After losing a few MAI to miscellaneous things, another conundrum: not enough cores to make more Adv MAI. Silver was more then i would ever be able to use, but no traders had them. Regular MAI were nothing but insta-pop meatshields to buy a few more seconds. Numbers dwindling, all turned to dust in a glorious blob of fiery death, with Inferno Cannons and Miniguns spewing out impossible to tank incredible DPS. IF i had regular colonists, it wouldn't have happened so soon. With full Bionics, they would be able to redeploy so much faster, take out enemies so much more efficiently. No matter how bad, with a base looking like an art gallery, not even the crappiest, moodiest recruit would break. At a certain point, able bodies is all they need to be when options are scarce. They can fall asleep on the spot from exhaustion, but they can get back up and fire a few more shots before collapsing again. MAI cannot.
At a certain point in a survival run, it's the COLONISTS that make MAI obsolete. Once they go Cyborg, they will be much faster and much more efficient then any Adv MAI, even in super heavy Hive armor - with Heavy armors, MAI just can't run from anything, they're sitting ducks. They MUST hold their ground. And when corpses are so plentiful, silver so abundant, harvesting Biomatter creates massive surplus and buying materials for bionics (or even just buying them from traders) doesn't even make a dent in the $$$; a new recruit will be a full Cyborg in a matter of minutes, ready to fight and die for the greater cause.     

Cool story, isn't it? This is what the MVP end game for survival runs was. Don't get me wrong, it's a blast to play, and a grand reward for outlasting and outsmarting everything the game throws at those base walls.

With the above in mind, i think the new bots are a GREAT breath of fresh air to MVP, and i welcome them with open arms. Truly, they make a TON of sense, and the endgame on a survival run will be exactly what it is supposed to be: a group of colonists bleed and die to protect their only home, what they build with so much sweat and blood, against increasing impossible odds. It's all they do, because there is no time for anything else. They fight, they eat, they can barely sleep before those sirens go off again, over, and over, and over. They can't cope with the burden of cooking, hauling, crafting, cleaning, life turns into an endless fight for survival, it's all that matters. Yet, they keep going.
If you don't agree with the above statement, look at the bots stats. They start with very low skills and no passions, the cooking bot, for example, can't even cook a simple meal. The crafting bot will take months before he can properly screw something together properly. Wouldn't it be catastrophic if that simple cook bot, that took so much effort to train before it stopped food poisoning everyone, got killed? And the crafting bot? Took FOREVER to train that little thing to craft decent weapons, what if he's gone? Taking a colonist away from the front lines to make some new weapons could be the difference between another victory, or a wipe.     
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Back to topic, i would agree if there was some extra balancing to the Hive and Steam armors. They are a little too easy to craft, if, along with steel, they also needed some Plasteel and a few chips thrown in, maybe energy cells to power them, it would be totally fair. About the energy cells, making them a much needed commodity (lets say those 2 armor sets needed the occasional recharge) would not burden production chains that much, and would be a nice material sink for all that overwhelming surplus. There could also be a separation between these 2 armors, honestly, i see no valid reason to use the Steamhull at all. The Hive is much better overall, while both only provide cold insulation. They could be balanced to have similar stats, one providing cold insulation, the other heat insulation. Desert maps can be just as challenging as ice sheets, but i personally default to freezer maps because i have those 2 available, they're pretty damn cool. Maybe just add 2 variants for hot maps?


Nanao-kun

To the above post, it's also worth mentioning that the skills for the cook bots/craft bots/etc., are also reset if you ever need to move the bot stations elsewhere.

By the way, does that modified Mending mod on page 42 work? Might be that, or maybe the mod variety pack itself, but after a certain point, checking the "researched" tab in the Research tab screws up that part of the UI, making it blank and unclickable. It fixes itself after restarting the game, but will happen again if you click it again. (Just in case it isn't clear, this is with that modified Mending mod installed.)

10001110

There is one other thing i'd like to mention, it didn't fit on the previous post's context: LAG. Massive, horrible, at a point unbearable amount of lag.
This happens on survival runs, where after hundreds of drop pods hit the ground, there's slag everywhere; AI pathfinding and the other things get confused, and the game becomes a slide show.
I though about the Terraformer. What if we had a version of the weather controller to remove slag from the map? Something just with that purpose, get rid of all that slag in a certain area? No damage to Humans, Norbals, Mechs, critters, nothing like that, so turret averse players like me and many others don't shrug it off as anti-cheese. Because with back to back raids it's impossible to haul all that slag out.
PURTY PLEASE???????????????


10001110

#704
Quote from: Nanao-kun on February 19, 2016, 03:43:54 PM
To the above post, it's also worth mentioning that the skills for the cook bots/craft bots/etc., are also reset if you ever need to move the bot stations elsewhere.

By the way, does that modified Mending mod on page 42 work? Might be that, or maybe the mod variety pack itself, but after a certain point, checking the "researched" tab in the Research tab screws up that part of the UI, making it blank and unclickable. It fixes itself after restarting the game, but will happen again if you click it again. (Just in case it isn't clear, this is with that modified Mending mod installed.)

Good thing you mentioned about the skill reset. Gonna save a lot of grief.
Yes, that modified Mending seems to work with MVP 1.25. Need to create new map and start new colony tho.