Simple Priority Fix

Started by AnalBuccaneer, December 12, 2015, 09:27:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

AnalBuccaneer

i think when customizing priorities, and you have multiple jobs set to 1, your pawn should do whichever is closest instead of left to right. I've been looking at my pawns movements and they appear to waste a TON of time running around doing the higher priority job rather than the more streamline job which is closest.

for example Karl has "patient" set to 1, and Haul also set to 1. When a pesky deer gets a good lick in, after he kills the deer, instead of hauling the deer back to camp (because he's already heading that way) he just goes straight to the med bay. and then has to return later for that carcass.

i dont think i need to run through all the scenarios, but im certain this minor change would free up a lot of wasted time, and make it a bit easier. (i think the game is difficult enough that we can take a few liberties and still get our asses kicked).

Toggle

Hauling back what a hunter kills is actually part of the hunters job, and is hunters priority. And sorry, but extremely unlikely to happen. This is in no way a "Simple" priority fix, nor is it a fix. Priorities work left to right, and prioritize depending on the levels of 1-4. To prioritize tasks off what's closest is really just silly. If you WANTED your pawn to go to your hospital over everything else when injured, you set it to 1, right? Well, with your system, every other task would have to be set to 2 because he would completely ignore being a patient and just do the closest ones. It doesn't make sense to have all these jobs based off proximity, honestly. The priority system is already set up to try and get the best priorities you can from only 4 numbers.
Selling broken colonist souls for two thousand gold. Accepting cash or credit.

AnalBuccaneer

Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AM
Hauling back what a hunter kills is actually part of the hunters job

No one is saying it's not.

Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AM
This is in no way a "Simple" priority fix, nor is it a fix.

there are already proximity mechanics in the game, you would just have to add that filter then run it through again, so yes, it would be "simple". and i didn't say fix, as if it was broken. i said fix as if to improve the ai.

Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AM
To prioritize tasks off what's closest is really just silly. If you WANTED your pawn to go to your hospital over everything else when injured, you set it to 1, right? Well, with your system, every other task would have to be set to 2 because he would completely ignore being a patient and just do the closest ones. It doesn't make sense to have all these jobs based off proximity, honestly.

i know how the priority system works. what i am saying is it is not efficient. i do NOT want my hunter to waste a whole day running back to the med bay because he was scratched. but if i did, then yes... priority 1, everything else 2. but if i didn't then i would put patient 1, and hunting 1. therefore he would bring the carcass back to base, and then heal up.

that was just one example of many. i am not going to spend all night explaining the scenarios, but next time you play take a look at your pawns and see how much time they are wasting running around. now if you are on normal/easy with base building story teller, this is not a big deal. but if you are playing "as the game is meant to be played" well then, it's nigh impossible without micromanaging the hell out of your pawns the entire game. this game is a game all about resource management. resources are resources but so is time, and pawns. i don't think more intuitive pawns is "silly".

Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AM
The priority system is already set up to try and get the best priorities you can from only 4 numbers.

The thing about a game in beta is, even though "it is already set up" it can be improved/changed/removed. yes, that is how it is set up, and yes it is simple. and yes, it does work. can it not be simple and intuitive? i think it's pretty close minded not to think so.

Fluffy (l2032)

From a performance perspective, that would require every time a job is finished that the pawn get a full list of all possible jobs and then figures out which is the closest, instead of just a list of the next highest priority. It'd put a huge amount of extra burden on the game, and frankly, I don't want the game to act this way. I like that I can have more than just the measly 4 priority levels through their left-right position. (And I also made a mod to allow changing their left-right position, as you call it.)

AnalBuccaneer

Quote from: Fluffy (l2032) on December 13, 2015, 05:31:11 AM
From a performance perspective, that would require every time a job is finished that the pawn get a full list of all possible jobs and then figures out which is the closest, instead of just a list of the next highest priority. It'd put a huge amount of extra burden on the game, and frankly, I don't want the game to act this way. I like that I can have more than just the measly 4 priority levels through their left-right position. (And I also made a mod to allow changing their left-right position, as you call it.)

You are probably right. there is a surprising amount of lag when dealing with a full colony...

but am i the only one that just feels like on higher difficulty, and harsher bioms, it is near impossible to balance the day-to-day aspect of the game? micro manage etc. idk, i guess it's part of the game. i just feel there needs to be a little balance. i understand the game is in beta, so "balancing" isn't at the top the priorities list. i just dont think colonists get enough done during the day, and extending the day clock might..... actually that might be do the trick, or at least be a good mod... choose the length of a day.... but depending on how the game is written, that might be a can of worms.

REMworlder

The day length's actually been extended twice now I believe. It used to be 20k ticks, then 24k, and now 30k.

Unfortunately I don't see a way to implement this that isn't performance intensive, but maybe you could come up with one if you understand the base systems being used. I really don't know much about the way the game uses regions to figure out jobs.

Keep in mind it's also important for a player to optimize the base to reduce transit time. Similar to how businesses consolidate activities and good types in stores or warehouses.

Toggle

If I'm correct the update for extending the day was for the next alpha I think? The one to double it.
Selling broken colonist souls for two thousand gold. Accepting cash or credit.

AnalBuccaneer

well it would seem my post has been in vain. Ludeon studios is aware of the issue and is taking steps to fix it!

i'd assume as they add more to the game, this would be an on-going process.

thanks for the help, it helps talking things out to figure out problems (for me at least), even if it was already being fixed.

Britnoth

#8
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AMAnd sorry, but extremely unlikely to happen. This is in no way a "Simple" priority fix, nor is it a fix.

Actually I tried making a mod to do just this last month, but I am not sure how it affected performance. Might try testing that later...

Edit: Used the dev tool to create a premade base with 23 colonists and then tried running it at quad speed with and without my mod running. Could not really notice any difference in FPS with it.

In what circumstances would such a change result in poor performance?

Fluffy (l2032)

Quote from: Britnoth on December 14, 2015, 03:48:40 AM
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on December 13, 2015, 01:38:14 AMAnd sorry, but extremely unlikely to happen. This is in no way a "Simple" priority fix, nor is it a fix.

Actually I tried making a mod to do just this last month, but I am not sure how it affected performance. Might try testing that later...

Edit: Used the dev tool to create a premade base with 23 colonists and then tried running it at quad speed with and without my mod running. Could not really notice any difference in FPS with it.

In what circumstances would such a change result in poor performance?
What exactly did you change? I hypothesized that making pawns check all available jobs instead of just jobs in a certain worktype would be a drain on performance, simply because the game would be doing a lot more 'distance checks'. I might be wrong ;)

Britnoth

Pawns check for work within a 12 tile radius before any work outside that range.

Only issue so far are pawns set to do work that can be repetitive (say research) and also work that requires occasional but regular actions (most notably recruiting prisoners) will stay on the repetitive task excluding anything else that is not close enough. It is fairly easy to work around, and the change takes some learning to adjust the priorities to suit it anyway, I but will think on a way to improve it.