Idea how rimkids would work.

[keylocke]

ugh.. did anyone say : "tynan, stop whatever it is that you're doing and add kids in rimworld NOW!!"

nope? haha. lol. why do people keep raising that red flag?

so far what i've read are just people discussing HOW to implement kids in rimworld. and yea, i was there several alphas back discussing how to add kids in rimworld, the same time that i was also there discussing how to add pets in rimworld, and yea i was also there discussing how to add relationships in rimworld.. talking to similar people who made very loud conclusions why they think those features should NEVER be added to rimworld.. lel. 

sure there might be an imbalance initially in implementing new features, but that's exactly what people here are talking about. HOW to make such a feature work WITHOUT BREAKING THE GAME.

meanwhile here are the summary of reasons of people that keeps saying NOPE, no kids in rimworld. period :

1) it takes too long for kids to grow.

answer : increased growth rate whether using vats, growth hormone injections, or just allow kids to grow fast like pet animals.. (i prefer vat and growth hormones since it's more lore friendly) people have also suggested that kids can incrementally unlock new skills as they grow, like how puppies can only have limited training compared to adults.

2) players can recruit more immigrants faster than waiting for kids to grow.

answer : sure you can. no one's trying to stop you. for me the purpose of kids isn't just about increasing population, it's about having more long term goals during the late game when there's nothing much to do other than faffing around.

3) it doesn't add anything to the game.

answer : that's your opinion, not a fact. i could argue that majority of the game is irrelevant since all you gotta do is actually build a ship to end your game. why the heck would you raise a pet, have relationships, craft art, etc.. just to leave the planet? there's so many ways to get money and resources without wasting time on all that.

4) other features need to be implemented first.

answer : true, this is probably the only point the seemed valid. 

[Tatte]

ugh.. did anyone say : "tynan, stop whatever it is that you're doing and add kids in rimworld NOW!!"

nope? haha. lol. why do people keep raising that red flag?

so far what i've read are just people discussing HOW to implement kids in rimworld. and yea, i was there several alphas back discussing how to add kids in rimworld, the same time that i was also there discussing how to add pets in rimworld, and yea i was also there discussing how to add relationships in rimworld.. talking to similar people who made very loud conclusions why they think those features should NEVER be added to rimworld.. lel. 

sure there might be an imbalance initially in implementing new features, but that's exactly what people here are talking about. HOW to make such a feature work WITHOUT BREAKING THE GAME.

meanwhile here are the summary of reasons of people that keeps saying NOPE, no kids in rimworld. period :

1) it takes too long for kids to grow.

answer : increased growth rate whether using vats, growth hormone injections, or just allow kids to grow fast like pet animals.. (i prefer vat and growth hormones since it's more lore friendly) people have also suggested that kids can incrementally unlock new skills as they grow, like how puppies can only have limited training compared to adults.

2) players can recruit more immigrants faster than waiting for kids to grow.

answer : sure you can. no one's trying to stop you. for me the purpose of kids isn't just about increasing population, it's about having more long term goals during the late game when there's nothing much to do other than faffing around.

3) it doesn't add anything to the game.

answer : that's your opinion, not a fact. i could argue that majority of the game is irrelevant since all you gotta do is actually build a ship to end your game. why the heck would you raise a pet, have relationships, craft art, etc.. just to leave the planet? there's so many ways to get money and resources without wasting time on all that.

4) other features need to be implemented first.

answer : true, this is probably the only point the seemed valid. 

Completely agree!

[Shabazza]

You gotta remember though people can have more than one child, say twins, or the most was, what, octuplets?
And he could also make it have options: How fast it takes to raise, what skills they can do at a certian age, etc
Or have kids as a free add-on/dlc

Great...more childrens to keep valuable colonists busy with raising and training them.

[Kegereneku]

Keylocke,
We keep bringing those red flag because some people don't actually address them and keep on unsubstantiated hope that "Tynan will work it out if we insist".

The problems are still here :
1) it takes too long for kids to grow. You can't "raise" them without absurdly fast growth, hence the vat-chamber to do 90% of the job, at which point you might as well skip the child part and work on vat-grow mechanic.
2) players can recruit more immigrants faster than waiting for kids to grow. waiting for kids to grow naturally imply many considerable change and hurdle in gameplay that are ultimately pointless, especially if we gain more way to recruit.
3) it doesn't add anything to the game. It is a NICHE features that force in redundant mechanic while impeding the inclusion of anything else, just for a negligible added value that will be drown within SOCIAL, FAMILY (+ betterTRADING, DIPLOMACY & RELIGION ?) you could even improve PRISONERS relations and add more Psychic-feature.
4) other features need to be implemented first. Kids doesn't need to be implemented at all. You could keep the game without kids indefinitely it would work just fine (and in fact BETTER as explained). Just like we aren't missing poop-simulation, realistic-hauling, realistic-industry (best left alone for mods).
5) ... etc

That's my cue to stop bumping the topic myself. Of course it will keep reappearing I'm just hoping some people will actually address the problems to overcome.

Edit : Now that I think about it, animal's poop/Manure to create fertile soil would actually be more interesting than kid.

[keylocke]

Keylocke,
We keep bringing those red flag because some people don't actually address them and keep on unsubstantiated hope that "Tynan will work it out if we insist".

The problems are still here :
1) it takes too long for kids to grow.

2) players can recruit more immigrants faster than waiting for kids to grow. waiting for kids to grow naturally imply many considerable change and hurdle in gameplay that are ultimately pointless, especially if we gain more way to recruit.
3) it doesn't add anything to the game. It is a NICHE features that force in redundant mechanic while impeding the inclusion of anything else, just for a negligible added value that will be drown within SOCIAL, FAMILY (+ betterTRADING, DIPLOMACY & RELIGION ?) you could even improve PRISONERS relations and add more Psychic-feature.
4) other features need to be implemented first. Kids doesn't need to be implemented at all. You could keep the game without kids indefinitely it would work just fine (and in fact BETTER as explained). Just like we aren't missing poop-simulation, realistic-hauling, realistic-industry (best left alone for mods).
5) ... etc

That's my cue to stop bumping the topic myself. Of course it will keep reappearing I'm just hoping some people will actually address the problems to overcome.

Edit : Now that I think about it, animal's poop/Manure to create fertile soil would actually be more interesting than kid.

1) You can't "raise" them without absurdly fast growth, hence the vat-chamber to do 90% of the job, at which point you might as well skip the child part and work on vat-grow mechanic.

vat grown should be optional, the same way that raising kids normally should be optional. WHY raise kids slowly the normal way? easy. why keep a "useless" yorkshire terrier other than for mood buffs?

having both vat grown/growth hormones and normal growth gives versatility for players who wants to keep kids in their colony for mood buffs or when they want they want to allow certain couples to breed and hopefully pass on their useful traits to their kids instead of just RNG immigration traits..

ie : you want more cannibal colonists? if you have a cannibal in a relationship, then allowing him/her to breed can give you a higher chance to get a new pawn with the cannibal trait.

2) waiting for kids to grow naturally imply many considerable change and hurdle in gameplay that are ultimately pointless, especially if we gain more way to recruit.

again, kids isn't just about increasing the population. it's a good way to breed certain traits instead of just waiting for the RNG gods to drop you the colonist you want/need. kids can also give mood buffs. and having kids makes population growth more organic instead of just via immigration.

WHY do i hope population growth becomes more organic? coz late game can get boring as frak. population fluctuations via birth and culling would make things interesting by breaking the monotony.

3) It is a NICHE features that force in redundant mechanic while impeding the inclusion of anything else, just for a negligible added value that will be drown within SOCIAL, FAMILY (+ betterTRADING, DIPLOMACY & RELIGION ?) you could even improve PRISONERS relations and add more Psychic-feature.

basically your argument revolves around : "there are features i wanna get implemented first that i think are more important than kids in rimworld, therefore NOPE i must shoot down your suggestions coz you will never have nice things until i get MY nice things implemented first"... lel. 

to reiterate my point of view : we are simply discussing HOW having kids in rimworld could work. we're not saying it needs to be implemented now, we just wanna keep the option open.

-----------------------

honestly, i think tynan can probably stop developing now, since he already implemented the spaceship. everything else is just irrelevant manure.

so no more nice things for everybody. we're just faffing around. 

[Kegereneku]

Don't act as if you were persecuted.
I simply explained problems you will have to solve to make it interesting/work at all.
Free to you to ignore others opinions, but explaining how you personally want it to work don't make it possible or interesting for others.

If those were your true goals, there's much better suggestions for trait-control than "child raising", same for breaking late-game monotony. So don't go accusing me shooting-down idea when I've shown more consideration for others and gave more alternative than you.

[keylocke]

persecuted? nah. i'm just summarizing the things that you said.

but i agree, putting kids in rimworld requires solving tons of issues. the biggest issue i actually see is generating the background traits.

if kids are born in the same colony, this means they'd be sharing similar background traits which would give them generic stats compared to immigrants. unless more "colony-based" backgrounds are created based on their inherited traits like :

-these are just samples :

-colony bully : born with an abrasive trait, X grew up blah blah blah.. as a result X became adept in melee combat. (trait based)
-child of a hunter : born and raised by a hunter parent, X grew up blah blah blah.. as a result X became good at hunting animals for a living. (parent based)
-silver spoon : born in a very rich colony, X grew up everything it needs blah blah blah... as a result, X is incapable of a lot of things.. (colony stat based on wealth)
-colony warchild :born in a colony that have seen plenty of deaths from both raiders and colonists alike, X grew up desensitized by all the violence, blah blah blah.. as a result X is incapable of social, and uncaring.. (colony stat based on kills)
-etc.. imagination is the only real limit.

------

these background traits will only be obtained by the child as soon as they transition towards an adult.

which means that there are 2 things that kids can have that immigrants don't.

1) being able to breed traits by choosing which couples are allowed to procreate.

2) the way you run your colony can have an effect in the kid's upbringing.

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this gives players a viable long term goal in the late game. it also adds to the drama and the story
of how you play the colony and how it reflects the kids that you raise.

you want good natured kids? then don't abuse your prisoners, don't let your kids get damaged through violence..

you want battle-scarred psychologically damaged kids? then let the kids get mauled by raiders and wild animals..

the kids you raise will reflect HOW you play the colony. they are not merely recruits and mood buffs. kids are a long term goal.

--------------------

edit : i'm writing this as i go along so here's to sum it up :

1) traits and passions : mostly inherited from parents and a bit of RNG.

2) young background trait : reflects your colony stats during the birth of the child

3) adult background trait : reflects your colony stats + the child's experience (ie : did they get damaged often? did they starve often? do they live in a beautiful and clean place?, are their parents still married or divorced? what are the events they experienced? volcanic winter? radioactive fallout?  did you use vat or growth hormones to force them to age? etc..)

so basically, how you play the game reflects on how your kids are gonna grow up. it also means that forcing your kid to grow via vat or growth hormones will also affect their background trait as compared to just letting them grow naturally.

[panofduluth]

Kids should happen. i know a lot think the game is about getting off the rim world and maybe when there wasn't much content it could have been. i have seen a lot of content added in that helps provide a lot of story. kids would add to this. you could easily force them to a zone inside why not. whats the point of having lots of story when the goal is to leave? i think this game was supposed to be like DF and if it wasn't well then thats why i play. i usually plan to play my colonies forever. no leaving the rim world why would i want to leave? i'll just quit playing if i didn't want to continue the simulation. the more story they can add to the game the better. maybe have an option or a specific bed type to enable or disable human breeding. i don't know how it would work really. it may be a while until the dev comes up with a good way. i definitely don't think kids should be dismissed.

[stefanstr]

I don't think kids have to be a resource. They can be one more interesting problem to deal with. They would add some happiness and bonding, but would be otherwise helpless and need protection: and their death would fuck up your colonists mood big time.

[Illusion Distort]

TL;DR: Adding young children or babies to the game would bring alot of new ways to play the game.

In my oppinion it would bring lots of flavour to the game simply by having a small child to look after, add in a few mood effects and a "parrent instinct script" and you have the perfect objective for hours of gameplay. "Protect the baby"

I have to agree that the aging should be accelerated, but in my oppinion just having a small ball of cuteness would be really cool and add the kind of lategame objectives that currently seem a bit repettative.

Imagine having a colony of 8 and suddenly you have to protect a pregnant lady or a child brought with a parent that you bought of a slave-trader. The pregnancy thing might be a bit hard to balance so i would mostly recommend just having young children or babies. They could come on
"Bring you children on a raid day" or together with their slave-parent at an extra or reduced cost. (depending on how you want to balance it, should a child be a burden or an extra way of keeping colonists happy)

These are just my thoughts on the subject, it is possible to also just make a mod that adds this and have it as a mod that comes with the game. (think there should be atleast a few of these, just for variety, but that's a subject for another post)

Anyone who supports this idea??? ?

[silverskin]

Vatgrown people would work.

There was a mod where you could break down corpses in an organ vat to make biomaterial that you could then use to grow regular organs for transplant. What if you could use that biomaterial in a some sort of human cloning tube.
It would be like a production building with a number of recipes. Cloning, Vatgrown Medic, Vatgrown Assassin, Vatgrown Soldier and the other one.

Cloning would recreate a dead colonist. I'm not too sure it's a good idea as it would water down that feeling of loss when your favourite colonist gets his head blown off. Perhaps it could be really expensive and recreates them as they were when you started the colony? Maybe they'll get a massive debuff that lasts a couple years at the idea of being clone. Maybe other colonists would dislike them for a while, thinking how can this clone replace the original.
Vatgrowing a colonist would give you a fresh pawn with whichever vatgrown background you picked in the recipe. It would just create a pawn with that childhood background and then maybe the colony settler adulthood background. Then appearance and traits could be randomised?

So now you can grind up the bodies of those annoying tribals and use them to grow artificial supersoldiers.

I've got a few ideas to keep things balanced:
- High biomaterial cost, since everything has to be grown and not all of a mangled raider body is useable
- Long creation time, maybe taking a season to two to create? This would be annoying as a power cut or solar flare would kill the growing colonist and you would have to redo it from the beginning with new biomaterial
- High power consumption
- 25% chance of the vatgrown going completely berserk when they're created. They'll pop out of the chamber immediately hostile to everyone. This could happen to clones, too. Which is doubly tragic as not only did you have to watch your favourite colonist die the first time around but now you have to order his clone killed. And then ground back up so you can try again.

I don't know how to do this but I think the systems are already there in the game. It seems like it would be possible. You just wouldn't be able to completely customise them.

[ClausA]

I find it pretty gamebreaking that i can't make children in a game that's all about surviving and expanding your colony. I wasn't hoping there would be kids, as a DF clone i was expecting it to be there already.

Don't get me started on the space ship and pods, here you are surviving with the most basic equipment and suddenly fancy space ship debris starts dropping all over, i would rather start as a homeless child or something that's actually closer to reality. I don't want to be able to end my game, the game ends when my colony dies, period.

I understand not everyone wants this which is why we should be able to tailor our own ending if any at all.

I love the game to bits though and i understand we're still in alpha.

[MAKAIROSI]

Or we could just make the colonists unaffected by age. But that, i guess, is a step back

[JimmyAgnt007]

Calm it down people.  The system for traditional reproduction is there just not fully enabled for humans because Tynan wants to do it right.  He has stated himself that it would be simple at this point but he doesnt want to rush anything. 

I talked about vat growing people a long while ago and still think its a good alternate system that should come with its own drawbacks and bonuses.  I think what we should focus on is ALL the potential ideas so that whenever Tynan feels like getting into it he can read this and find helpful ideas.  NOT arguments and unhelpful criticisms. 

[00petar00]

I feel that there should be a higher  chance of people rebelling or acting as spies for enemies, Trust stat should be introduced into the game to go along with kids, that way it add more benefits to having kids with 100% trust into colony and not betraying it.

More about children being added into the game, i feel that i wouldn't mind them but i'd prefer for developers to work on other parts of the game.

This would just take too much time if they are going to work on different kinds of breeding/growing children.. Just feels like a waste of time, it would be nice to  have but its more trouble then worth.

Children growing should be around 4-6 years at most i think, it just  doesn't feel right to waste food and other  colonists time on them otherwise, +5 mood boost to everyone in the colony and +15 for parents. (It would not be nice if everyone got a big mood boost, as kids grow for a long time) They would inherit traits of their parents, and maybe even add them a forth trait to make it even more viable for people to get kids and colonist with good traits to reproduce.

My first post in like 2  years, was browsing the  forums, as i usually lurk but oh well, gotta make the  first step someday..

EDIT:
I didn't write all i wanted, so i decided to edit, anyway i feel that this is too big of an update if most of the good suggestions about kids get implemented it would take as much time as a whole new version of the game.

I feel that training them with colonist would be a good thing, 10,16,20 in art for example should give different experience to the kid, if a guy who's at 20 in art, he should give much more exp.

I feel that it could be nice if traits were changed to work with kids, that way grandparents traits could get inherited, and whole family from mother's side should have similar traits same for father's side.
Now in the game you can see a father of a colonist with 3 completely random traits/different from the son.