Is something wrong with shooting?

Started by nuschler22, April 18, 2016, 03:34:59 PM

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nuschler22

Trying to put down an animal that was hurt and my "8" shooting rated colonist missed about 10 times straight from 1 square away with a shotgun.


Boston

Welcome to Rimworld, where your colonists can be hilariously, ridiculously incompetent

Astasia

Did they have an eye scar from a fist fight? Half my colonists get them, it cripples their shooting accuracy.

nuschler22

Quote from: Boston on April 18, 2016, 03:36:59 PM
Welcome to Rimworld, where your colonists can be hilariously, ridiculously incompetent

This Alpha seems much worse than before.  Colonists with about 5 rating or better use to be at least competent.  It greatly ruins the experience.

Kraehe

Quote from: Boston on April 18, 2016, 03:36:59 PM
Welcome to Rimworld, where your colonists can be hilariously, ridiculously incompetent

Just like in the real world.

Mathenaut

Because of the math with shooting, small factors multiply excessively over range. This is part of why the quality of weapons makes such a big difference.

AI also likes to make your colonists hunt at maximum range (least accuracy), so you may want to move them closer manually.

Boston

Quote from: Kraehe on April 18, 2016, 03:39:31 PM
Quote from: Boston on April 18, 2016, 03:36:59 PM
Welcome to Rimworld, where your colonists can be hilariously, ridiculously incompetent

Just like in the real world.

Not quite.

A large reason firearms eventually became the weapon of choice of soldiers and hunters is because they are easy to use. Much easier than bows.

The skills rate on a scale from 1-20. Firearms should be effectively used once the character reaches level 5. Bows and other primitive weapons should be effectively used once the character reaches level 10. "Effectively", in this case, means "able to hit the target if they are standing still outside of cover, within the base range of the weapon". Moving targets, targets in cover, and targets targets far away.

A character (skill 4 "Amateur") equipped with a survival rifle (37 range), should be expected to be able to hit a human-sized target 30 squares away, so long as they are standing still and not in cover,  with every shot. If a 12-year-old Boy Scout with a .22LR can get 5 shots inside of a quarter on a 25 yard target, after never picking up a rifle before, then you should be able to nail a human-sized target at 30 yards, no problem

Also, there shouldn't really be a thing where a character misses with any ranged weapon at point-blank range.

nuschler22

Anyone who thinks it's a realistic for even the worst of shooters to miss over and over at close range with a shotgun (especially with buckshot) has never fired a shotgun. 

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone miss a target with a shotgun from six feet or less away.  And I've seen a lot of shooting by a lot of bad shooters.

Once again, I was one square away.  So, the very next square.  Not one square between.  So no distance to complicate the matters (game math wise).

RazorHed

Quote from: nuschler22 on April 18, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
Anyone who thinks it's a realistic for even the worst of shooters to miss over and over at close range with a shotgun (especially with buckshot) has never fired a shotgun. 

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone miss a target with a shotgun from six feet or less away.  And I've seen a lot of shooting by a lot of bad shooters.

Once again, I was one square away.  So, the very next square.  Not one square between.  So no distance to complicate the matters (game math wise).

LOL well let me tell you a story about my brother!   This is about 25 years ago so he was like 19 and I was 17 . He had a I think 8 shot pump shotgun. We also had a St Bernard dog in a fence with a 4x4x4 ft dog box in the middle . Rats moved in under that dog box and stole all his "kibble" so I asked him to push the dog box over and id start pounding them with a flat head shovel.

He says no , I should push it over and he'll get his shotgun.  So I push it over and jump back .  There was a 4x4 ft x 8 inch high completely packed volume of rats that lived under the dog box.  From "one square away"  about 5 feet away BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM
. There wasn't a single dead rat .

nuschler22

Quote from: RazorHed on April 18, 2016, 04:25:23 PM
Quote from: nuschler22 on April 18, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
Anyone who thinks it's a realistic for even the worst of shooters to miss over and over at close range with a shotgun (especially with buckshot) has never fired a shotgun. 

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone miss a target with a shotgun from six feet or less away.  And I've seen a lot of shooting by a lot of bad shooters.

Once again, I was one square away.  So, the very next square.  Not one square between.  So no distance to complicate the matters (game math wise).

LOL well let me tell you a story about my brother!   This is about 25 years ago so he was like 19 and I was 17 . He had a I think 8 shot pump shotgun. We also had a St Bernard dog in a fence with a 4x4x4 ft dog box in the middle . Rats moved in under that dog box and stole all his "kibble" so I asked him to push the dog box over and id start pounding them with a flat head shovel.

He says no , I should push it over and he'll get his shotgun.  So I push it over and jump back .  There was a 4x4 ft x 8 inch high completely packed volume of rats that lived under the dog box.  From "one square away"  about 5 feet away BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM click click BOOM
. There wasn't a single dead rat .

Pretty unbelievable, quite frankly.   Sorry, but from that range he could only miss if he was trying not to hit them if it was truly packed full of rats. 


RazorHed

They scatter quickly  and he was so close with the shotgun the pellets didn't spread much .
It was really funny for us.

sadpickle

Quote from: nuschler22 on April 18, 2016, 04:05:43 PM
Anyone who thinks it's a realistic for even the worst of shooters to miss over and over at close range with a shotgun (especially with buckshot) has never fired a shotgun. 

I don't know if I've ever seen anyone miss a target with a shotgun from six feet or less away.  And I've seen a lot of shooting by a lot of bad shooters.

Once again, I was one square away.  So, the very next square.  Not one square between.  So no distance to complicate the matters (game math wise).
Although the graphic indicates buckshot, I don't think Rimworld actually calculates the pellets. It functions more like a slug, IIRC. Combat Realism, however has this feature.

Tynan

#12
I'm going to look into the code to see if there's a problem; I have noticed this and it seems odd. We didn't change anything with shooting, but bugs can come from weird places. Or, maybe the water level of jankiness in the game has just fallen so this seems to stick out more. We'll see.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

b0rsuk

If you mean finishing off downed enemies, two improvements can be made:

1. Pawns simply using melee attacks on downed enemies, especially hunting. Might be immersion breaking but they're technically harmless.
2. Pawns should get into optimal range of their weapon, not as close as possible. Last time I checked sniper rifles were LESS accurate point blank.

MajorFordson

Would be VERY interesting to see a mod or experimental "realism" mode, where bullet wounds are almost always fatal, shooting has realistic accuracy and firing patterns etc It might not work at all, or it might make for a very hard and exciting game where every combat is life and death, not simply a few injuries.