[A13]Arbitration: Realistic Research - Overhaul, modpack, vehicles 06/13 v0.07

[Cornishdude152]

Am i the only one that can't use the concrete mixers?.

[jackarbiter]

Been playing this for a while - I'm impressed. Haven't got very far with the research yet, but it's one of the best Rimworld overhauls / mod packs I've ever played.

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Got some questions and feedback.

• Is there a way to effectively use solar chimneys? I put one in my early storage/workshop and it barely does anything. Keeping doors open during the night is more effective at reducing temperature than them.
• Agave and berry bush removing/harvesting time seems a bit harsh.
• Stacked earth defenses are too good. Any completely impassable structures that can be shot through are too good.
• I don't really see a point of using old historical guns and cannons. Tribals can be defeated with crossbows and dead pirates always leave enough guns and ammo to deal with another wave. I also have few sniper rifles and EMP shotgun pellets to deal with mechanoids if they appear, fingers crossed.
• Visitors sometimes spawn with loadout generators. It may be a conflict with Hospitality.
• Are you going to integrate more mods into this? Fluffy's UI mods at least, pretty please?

EDIT: Hubris. Here we go.

Thank you; as a modder I get paid in gratitude, and your comment and comments like it make this all worth it. That and I needed to buff up my C# skills.

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• Solar chimneys: Make sure sunlight hits it. That generally means no walls casting too much shade on it; in a south wall of mine it gets enough sunlight. Also needs rain to fill it. As I say in the credits for POWERLESS!, it's not very useful in desert starts and such. Ideally I'd add wells and a water resource and you'd be able to fill it from some oasis or other. Since the deserts ARE WHERE YOU NEED IT THE MOST. And since you mention agave I figure you have a desertish start. Anyway, you can watch it do its work, it'll give you detailed info on its state of being able to cool you off. I did notice that it forced me to place it from outside to inside but that I then later accidentally covered it with roof (I could swear the fences I use don't support a roof, but I think I accidentally created a large porch area using them and a combination of defensive structures within them), but by then I had electricity and didn't bother worrying about it.
• Harvesting berries nerf was mentioned earlier by another poster. I assume you're talking inital stage before tools... if it's still too nerfed after tools (50% of normal should still be... ok I guess) let me know, I can't remember off the top of my head if harvesting certain plants somehow requires more work. I can't separate plant work (one of the defs I use to make tools necessary), unfortunately, and this especially bugs me for chopping wood vs. planting, etc., and is especially harsh for picking berries/agave. I can take a look at modifying the jobdrivers for sowing/harvesting/cutting, but not sure how far I can get. Anyways, I usually rush build (I'll be putting up a playthrough later - I've been taking screenshots of my favorite save for weeks - that shows the best initial rush to get tools and such), I never had one of my three go pick berries because they rot so fast and I'm more worried about getting those damn tools going so I can get those damn gardens going so I don't starve in the middle of the damn winter, which is made more likely since I use JackArbiter (nice), who likes to give you lots of pawns so he can watch them starve in the first winter. That sadistic fuck.
• I'll think about making the earth defenses passable. They were intended to be a poor man's embrasures, with lots of work required, but I may have tested them before I realized I had construction speed at 1% instead of 10%, which happened when I merged my main mod and my CR patch. At one point they were very hard to build and were justifiably decent at preventing passage IMO, especially since embrasures would go on to make them a poor choice unless you had few materials with which to make embrasures.
• I was originally going to warn you against relying on EMP rounds and sniper rifles to defend against mechanoids, especially because EMP rounds in CR took a page from stuns in the first versions of WoW and have reduced usefulness as you spam them and even sniper rifles don't do jack (and I can't assume everyone will have EMP rounds when centipedes spawn), but then clicked your edited link and realized you'd figured it out. Cannons are very important so long as you can get ahold of FSX, either via milking boomalopes or killing them when the weather is cool (I really ought to add a chemical sac to boomrats so you can get some FSX in desert biomes, but since I tend to pick rainy areas due to my own personal rain fetish I haven't encountered a lot of them). NOTE: My later changes probably made it to where you can kill boomalopes when the weather is warm, and just put the fire out, since I changed how fuel puddles are handled since my vehicles use them... before fuel puddles would auto-reignite so that they'd only burn out when their HP was done with, which is a good feature but ultimately annoyed me to no end since I hadn't yet started toying with BBReam's firefighting mod, which I've updated for v13 but have yet to implement here since there are a few issues, and your colonists would spend all day trying to beat fires out). Anyways (sorry, I started writing these responses bottom up and I'm a few more beers into this than when I started so I'm writing way to many damn words and my parentheses and sentence structure is probably destroying all coherence) I've twice tried to use only two cannons with explosive shot against mechanoids and both times I savescummed many times, and the amount of gatling guns made little difference.  Long story longer, cannons are important, and with the reduced reload times pretty useful, but I'm worried that musket-type weapons aren't useful, especially since I nerfed their reload speed after allowing them for tribals. So if you have actually read this far into this disaster of a list item, please let me know how the musket-type weapons have worked for you.
• I address the loadout generators further down in this post. Why in the hell did I write these responses bottom up? It has not worked out well.
• I haven't integrated UI mods precisely because there are 42,000 of them and I'd have to update every time a UI mod was adjusted, and Fluffy (and other people) update quite a lot. I use the v13 UI modpack that's probably 5 pages back; I really ought to use Fluffy's latest work but haven't had a lot of time to go updating. I understand that if I were to incorporate them people would only have 1) CCL and 2) My mod to activate, and I understand that a lot of people would find a few UI mods they didn't realize even existed, but right now I'm trying to hammer out a variety of crazy issues and adding UI mods in would probably make that much harder, with a lot of people asking questions about UI issues I know nothing about or asking why I haven't updated that latest one to version x. Already people are asking about CR changes I didn't know existed because when I integrated CR they didn't exist, so I have to go deal with that. If I'm feeling energetic and not-hungover I may try to figure out a way to provide a latest-and-greatest UI pack in the OP thread of this, but honestly until I'm able to kill the stupid-goddamn-motherfucking-missing-textures-bug in veinminer I'm not sure if I'll try. UI is the one area I have purposefully learned exactly zero about.
• You will notice that, being more intoxicated in this first response as compared to the last, my cursing has gone from 0 to approaching infinity, from bottom up. If this is against forum rules, fuck the forum rules. Also, I apologize and will gladly edit if necessary. Going to hit the post button now. Lord help me.

Hi! I've tested new build and must say performance goes through the roof compared to previous Also great work with BBStreams Tools for haul implementation. I don't know how but you managed to fix bugs with carts and looping haulers.

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I noticed that coal furnace with 0 fuel is producing heat. Outside is -7 and inside there are 2 rooms with vent and temperature fluctuate near 28 deg. C. 

Did I? I may have fixed the carts and looping haulers, but if so that was an accident due to my rearrangement of my mod's code (as I like to call it, the great unfuckaging). If you have the problem down the road please let me know ASAP. I had all day to think about this (while doing boring things away from the computer like attending 5th grade graduations and entertaining party guests), I figured the problem might only occur when you have (let's say) two spots in a higher priority storage area and  three things in a lower priority storage area, and your hauler decided to move things but picked up three of a kind, but then saw there were only two spots, so dumped back in the lower priority, at which point he or she decided to move things to the higher priority spots again. Was sure this might be it, but I can already spot a flaw or two in my thinking as far as how the game handles things that need to be hauled, though those flaws might be glossed over by how the game handles things before and after that first thing is picked up, yadda yadda yadda. It'd be something that only happens occasionally, but when it does it's annoying as the Friday song. Like I say, I hope it's fixed, but I suspect it isn't... more likely a space opened up in one of your stockpiles or you changed priorities. I'll be taking a look.

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My damn coal furnace again. I really need to fix how it operates. I ideally wanted to have it turn off so that not only is it cheaper than a campfire it is controllable. In fact in my to do list there are only two items (other than looking into bugs):

Make coal furnace somehow not always. <--- Two degrees in English and this is what I get.
Reduce cost for joy items.

But yeah I guess I didn't wrap my head around the heatpusher class, I'll take a look at fixing it soon.

This kept happening with Combat Realism as well until I got the latest build from the new coder for it off github, so i don't know what exactly is causing it

I will update with the latest changes tomorrow, krutchen's changes were about the only thing around when I first implemented. My version of CR is slightly different so it'll take more time than copying over, and I haven't kept up with my own changes well enough (pretty sure all I did was keep non-colonists from dropping things, change the min speed to 10% instead of 1%, and adjust the fuel puddles being impossible to put out), but I'll be adding to github shortly and going from there.

I think he uses 1.6.5 because Pawns drop item on the ground when it's not on the loadout list. Actually I don't like that, but it fixes many issues with AI factions so nothing to complain.

I use 1.6.5 with Krutchen's changes for enemy raiders shooting at people behind enclosures. That was the latest update when I implemented CR (it was actually somewhat after I implemented but I went back and made the same changes Krutchen did). But there were probably more updates when I released, I just hadn't seen them or hadn't looked. My fixes to CR (see reply immediately above) are probably independent of my being able to keep pawns from dropping things and whatever other changes were made, so I'll make the latest CR updates when I can.

extreme desert, the normal and the snowy biomes are the no or less lag biomes

Have you tried the latest version? Shouldn't have lag problems according to other reports. Those biomes were likely less laggy due to less animals (or in the case of the normal, a certain time of year you started causing less animals to be present). My problem was the way I was handling checking for carts on movement, I was checking against too many things, like a dumbass; it now checks only pawns, as it should. Other changes had a more profound impact on vehicles, which don't lag out anymore.

I'm running latest version. Eh, it's not really a problem. Just some visitors spawned 3 out of 30 times with loadout generator dummy items instead of ammo.

I had this happen when some spawned in, but when I unpaused the loadout generator dummy items turned to normal items so I thought it was just default CR behavior that I hadn't noticed.

Has this happened with any pawn or just with pawns who spawn in with carts?

There are changes to factions (so no new faction mod)

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I'm playing with set of mods which I've listed before, and i don't need anything else.

The faction changes are from CR, and mostly just change loadouts or likelihood of mechanoids/centipedes. New factions should (hopefully) be fine, and if they show up on the edge with the default raid class they'll spawn in 50% with ATVs like everybody else. Hopefully they then use default map exiting, or the vehicles will not despawn when they leave and errors will be thrown. But this is unlikely, I think.

(EDIT) I've since seen a post saying that his factions.xml is messing with new factions, so obviously my own mod will as well. Thank you for pointing this out.

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I'm glad you find this fills most of your needs

Hmm anyone else having issues with people you save stays just wandering around in your base/close by and eventually they collapse due hunger or exhaustion etc, they seem never try to leave map like normally. Using newest version.

I haven't, but then I usually capture them so I can convert them. I asked in the hospitality thread if they could be converted like the others, and they were like "just capture them." I don't like doing that because it pisses off the spacers, which doesn't matter since they don't raid, except maybe it makes prices higher for space traders according to someone, or something I don't know. But I just capture them now.

I made a few override classes for exiting the map so that anybody with a vehicle will flag it to be despawned so it doesn't throw errors, but I kept the vanilla functionality entirely intact. But since I do mess with it I wouldn't be surprised if when I go test, which I will do, it turns out to be a mistake on my part or something I overlooked.

Controllable Lowered Weapons is one of you're mods right? I used to look around using screen names, so I could learn more about the people behind the mods I like, I stopped doing so a while ago, I hope I'm not being nosy.

No actually that's pretty cool, the Internet is a small place I guess. My son always watches youtubers, and he told me when I had 10 subscribers and I was like "why would people subscribe to me?" Though I understand it, it wasn't something I thought was gonna happen, just needed a place for my really really crappy demonstration vids. My son was my 11th subscriber. But I am extremely glad and pleasantly surprised to meet one of my non-progeny subscribers. If you're still using controllable lowered weapons (if you're still playing fallout 4), make sure to ditch it for my later mod button-lowered weapons, and maybe look up my arbitration mod for Fallout 4, makes the AI not fight stupid.

Am i the only one that can't use the concrete mixers?.

I'll take a look at that, that's one of the few production facilities that I know right off the bat I didn't test much after implementing. Can't make any promises I can fix it tonight, I've had a few beers so I know well enough to stay away from uploading "fixes."

[Grogfeld]

Would you know if i could implement all those mods without starting a new save?

hmm for EdBs Interface mod you have to make change to save file for pawn icon to show up, but the rest should work fine.

[Justas love]

Will you add apparello or is it in?

[Grogfeld]

I like your wall of text (WoT later). Your explanations are helpful. Now I know how to use solar chimneys, I didn't use it earlier but I gave it a try. It was full of water and  solar was 100/100 but the room was still above 0 C even in winter with cold snap Now I'll build it not surrounded with walls. EDIT: Also in heat wave there was no change and actually was hotter in that room. but then I saw something that was blocking cooling cell

I was confused with earth defenses because it has equal number of hit points as normal rock, so I thought it was a wall not an early embrasure. But Nimander is right it's OP, if you surround your defense area with that wall you have a fortress not a bunker If you consider to make it passable than it's a good idea but you could make it also weaker so that it could be easy destroyed.

Like I said earlier I like where you going with this mod so I don't even install other mods that adds stuff because it would crush my fun. I only add functionality like hauling priority and cleaning area designation, both aren't updated so often, well almost never because they are simple mods. Fluffy's are different and I understand why you don't add them. Oh and there is Hospitality from Orion but it adds something that vanilla should have and it is(for me) compatible with CR.

So to end my lesser WoT I really appreciate your work. I like vanilla game but since Minami ended his work I was looking for a good modpack. There are some with a good balance but I always search for new.

Cheers!


EDIT: Framed wall still has costStuffCount 10

[Amariithynar]

Regarding earthen walls: If you spend the time building up high earthen walls that you can mount to fire over then yes, they're going to be very effective. It's a tactics issue, where it's a very strong tactic to protect your people from incoming attacks while optimizing your own ability to attack that has been done since the days of the bow and arrow, and otherwise combat in Rimworld is limited to a charging horde of enemies with various weapons; fix the tactics issue, don't just call earthen walls overpowered because they're doing exactly what they did IRL.

[Dynastiew]

So i have a problem with ammo storage someone mind explaining to me how it works, when you put it on dispense will my pawn still fills it or will i have to manually reput it in receive, because of it my colon did 500 arrow because my other pawn keep putting it in the ammo storage and when they are in it they don't count in the inventory of the colony :s, an other problem is that some of my pawn put the cart in it :s.

[Grogfeld]

Regarding earthen walls: If you spend the time building up high earthen walls that you can mount to fire over then yes, they're going to be very effective. It's a tactics issue, where it's a very strong tactic to protect your people from incoming attacks while optimizing your own ability to attack that has been done since the days of the bow and arrow, and otherwise combat in Rimworld is limited to a charging horde of enemies with various weapons; fix the tactics issue, don't just call earthen walls overpowered because they're doing exactly what they did IRL.

Really? IRL you can build a 2m or higher wall and stand 10m behind it to shoot at your enemies? Don't jump with real life realism when we talk about game, and with earth defenses it's a gameplay issue where it just make hard for AI to even be near to fulfill objective.

[Justas love]

Figure out some kind of cooling in the early stages



I can't believe i just wasted 1 hour of my life

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[Fafn1r]

Figure out some kind of cooling in the early stages



I can't believe i just wasted 1 hour of my life

Craft dusters.

Or rush smithing bench research, craft better tools and mine into a rock. It's always cool under overhead mountain.

[eastwood6510]

Well, it's now happened twice. Entire colonies wiped out by heat stroke.

I just can't research and build fast enough to get some kind of cooling setup.

I'm loving the mod progression as it's just the kind of thing I was looking for for awhile.

I don't even know what to suggest because I feel like electric cooling shouldn't be a thing you can get within 2 or 3 days of crash landing (and currently it seems like it takes multiple seasons to get to it which might be alright).

The only problem is food rotting and people dying of heat stroke from heatwaves before you can get that research done.

Idk. Maybe my only option is having multiple research benches and multiple researchers to kind of speedrun to cooling.

[florencka]

I started a new map with the newest version of the mod and the problem with hauling in a loop with vehicles (carts, I don't yet have atv on the new map) is still present. The setup is for example a cooling room with a big preferred zone for food and a little critical zone for meat near the cooking table. Same problem with a little critical zone for hay outside in the chicken pen. Hay should be filled to max there and any overflow should be in the cooling room. But when hauling with carts the paws take a lot of hay in the cooling room but instead of bringing it to the chickens they just unload it a couple metres further in the same zone. Am I the only one having this problem? I really like using small critical zones near the crafting benches.

[zzz1000]

I  think  workaround is to forbid resources  for cart used in multiple different priorities zones, at least if some resource create problem.

[eastwood6510]

Well, it's now happened twice. Entire colonies wiped out by heat stroke.
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Idk. Maybe my only option is having multiple research benches and multiple researchers to kind of speedrun to cooling.

Well, I just tried again. With all out rushing of making dusters and cowboy hats, only 2 out of 7 people died from this colony's heat wave.

So maybe coolers can wait after all!

[Justas love]

Well, it's now happened twice. Entire colonies wiped out by heat stroke.
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Idk. Maybe my only option is having multiple research benches and multiple researchers to kind of speedrun to cooling.

Well, I just tried again. With all out rushing of making dusters and cowboy hats, only 2 out of 7 people died from this colony's heat wave.

So maybe coolers can wait after all!

Still, unesacery deaths (i dunno if i spelled it correctly)