[A13]Arbitration: Realistic Research - Overhaul, modpack, vehicles 06/13 v0.07

[jackarbiter]

Bug: installing a prosthetic arm on pawn with arm torn off results in extra human arm in storage.

Yeah bug exists in either EPOE or de-surgeries. If they don't fix it I will look into it. I remember reading about it.

Hauling w/vehicles does not check if target stockpile can accomodate all the goods: they get spilled around, and this has at least 2 problems:

1. If it's a nutrient synth hopper in prisoner room, overflowing stuff doesn't get hauled back and rapidly accumulates.

2. If there's neighboring stockpile that accepts the same goods, hauling loop is created.

There are still some issues with hauling, mainly for 1-tile stockpiles. I still have to see if I can't fix the minor loops that get created, the code is checking if the things need hauling using the base game code but it does seem to have issues. I think I have a way to address this.

Out of town, it will be midweek before I can work on this; hopefully you will find it is in a playable state. I played some over the weekend and encountered some minor stuff like ai turrets unlocking too early and still some minor vehicle stuff, but things mostly worked out.

[CrownBee]

Thank you so much for making this mod, it's superb!

My first suggestion would be to add the ability to smelt old ammo back into metal in bulk. My guys will spend forever smelting 1 arrow into 1 steel over and over...

[Grogfeld]

Thank you so much for making this mod, it's superb!

My first suggestion would be to add the ability to smelt old ammo back into metal in bulk. My guys will spend forever smelting 1 arrow into 1 steel over and over...

Wait you're saying that 1 arrow = 1 steel hmmm that's infinite source of steel! That's OP.

OK now you have even more OP option. Smelting only ammo x10 and give you 10 steel, with halve of required work. Just extract and copy to mod folder after ARR mod.


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[nakie]

Hi. I really love your mod I specially love the writing system and the boomalope tweak.

Some things:

- Bots drive around vehicles. And when they go charge in their stations with the vehicle still in tow it gives me unlimited exceptions until I manually unmount the vehicle.

- Traders spawn with their goods stored in their own pockets instead of in the cart they're pulling which reduces their speed quite abit according to the tooltip. Is this intended?

- Siege raids are useless atm. Raiders spawn without any tools so it takes them forever to build sandbags and stuff. It takes them about half a day to build a single sandbag tile.

- Also, just my opinion, tools are very wood extensive right now. I tried playing on a desert map, and between making tools, the non-optional wood-using benches, beds(all version uses wood in this mod) and fueling my early food processors and stuff I find myself constantly out of wood. Considering how important they are in this mod, would you consider lowering the wood cost of tools? It might make playing in certain biomes abit more forgiving specially when using Jack Arbiter storyteller(more pawn = more tool/bed = more wood drain).

- Last minor one, but I noticed a typo(technically). On the info on stone walls it states that they're "the only inflammable wall". It should be "uninflammable" :p. BTW, are they really the only uninflammable wall? Can the framed ones catch fire? Their flammability is set at 0% though?

[CrownBee]

My comments fall into a few categories:

Mod compatibility:

• The hospitality update actually messed up this mod for me. Not sure why, but now all the visitors exit as normal, but "go missing in my territory". I didn't get this with 13, but now I'm getting it with 13b. I'm going to try reverting to 13 and see if that fixes my issue.
• I can't get the no_cleaning mod to work with this one. Am I doing something wrong, or do they conflict?

Strange behaviors with this mod:

• Colonists that get scared under fire will "take cover" by running out from behind the embrasure and laying down in the field in front of it.
  
• I'm seeing the hauling loop that others have already reported. There seem to be 2 things that break it specifically:
  
  • when using a cart and the target zone isn't big enough for everything (already mentioned)
  • I see another one, where a hauler with a cart will go around and around in circles, redistributing stuff in the zone.
    I have noticed that using this mod, haulers don't tend to prioritize partial stacks (maybe just haulers with carts?). This leads to my stockpiles full of partial stacks, which then triggers the redistribution loop.
• The ammo storage container doesn't seem to count towards the colony inventory - I managed to make 2k .45 colt ammo and stuff it into an ammo storage before realizing that I was never going to hit the 200 limit I set

Tweaks / Wishlist

• I personally would prefer it if robots didn't use ATVs, but I don't mind them using my carts. Both are a little silly - I personally think that robots probably shouldn't be able to use vehicles. If people like the feature, could we get a checkbox on the robots or on the vehicles that is just "allow robot use" or "allow vehicle use"?
• I can't get Colonists to automatically take ammo out of the ammo storage. Am I doing something wrong, or is this broken?
• Most weapons don't list what types of ammo they can shoot. I'm getting better about remembering, but on the first time around, this was really confusing. Can we add a blurb about what ammo each weapon can fire?
• Breaking down clothing at the textile bench would be way easier if it was a consolidated to a single task at the textile bench. Inside that task (in the details) options to allow / disallow by clothing types, wear and quality. This would really speed up setting up and managing these tasks.
• Similarly, smelting ammo would be way better if handled with a separate task from smelt weapon. Currently, smelting ammo results in x1 of that ammo being smelted down. I think it would be plenty balanced to be able to smelt ammo down by whatever size stack a colonist can carry, and yield 75% (or whatever is standard for deconstructing) of the metal resources that went into that ammo.
• Finally, several late game objects do not create a "work in progress" item when they are started crafting (skydrill and drill head specifically, may be others). This means that they need to be crafted all in one go (or without any other colonist touching the materials during crafting), which is difficult to do. Also, the skydrill specifically says "crafting personal shield" while being made

Let me end by saying again how much I enjoy this mod!

I would be happy to help collaborate on some of this stuff it that is possible - I could standardize the gun text and add what ammo is usable if you let me know what format to use!

[LetheNyx]

My comments fall into a few categories:

Mod compatibility:

• The hospitality update actually messed up this mod for me. Not sure why, but now all the visitors exit as normal, but "go missing in my territory". I didn't get this with 13, but now I'm getting it with 13b. I'm going to try reverting to 13 and see if that fixes my issue.

That actually has nothing to do with this mod, its just the hospitality mod because he changed the way chiefs get angry and its no longer dependent on them just "leaving your territory" a BUNCH of people have mentioned it over there.

[Grogfeld]

snip, snip

1. Problem with hospitality, wait for Orion to make another patch. Revert Hospitality to 11 or so version or take the punishment for "FUN"
2. If by scared you mean vanilla behavior then it's vanilla problem, if you are talking about suppression mechanics then its related to CR (Combat Realism mod). There is no support from original CR developer so probably no solution for this, except maybe someone will cut this option from CR.
3. If you want to take something from ammo storage you need to make it to dispense not receive, then this ammo you choose will show on top of the ammo storage. there are 2 buttons one is to switch from ammo types the next is to make it to receive, dispense and do nothing.

Your Tweaks/Wishlist:
1. I thought that there is option to reclaim fabric in one option for all clothing, are you referring the old system? (see patch notes)
2. Ammo types in weapons description would be great it's not a big problem but still it would help a lot new players that are using CR. So it's actually  another issue for CR topic. Try maybe there. OR you could make it and post changes in attachment as a "patch" I would use it . But remember to make changes in separate mod folder.
3. For ammo smelting try "my mod to this mod" it's in attachment few post earlier (yes I'm lazy and I name it "a") It gives another option in Electric smelter for ammo and it smelt 2x times faster. It smelts 10 ammo and give 10 steel.

[jackarbiter]

Hi. I really love your mod I specially love the writing system and the boomalope tweak.

...

Some things:

1. Bots drive around vehicles. And when they go charge in their stations with the vehicle still in tow it gives me unlimited exceptions until I manually unmount the vehicle.

2. Traders spawn with their goods stored in their own pockets instead of in the cart they're pulling which reduces their speed quite abit according to the tooltip. Is this intended?

3. Siege raids are useless atm. Raiders spawn without any tools so it takes them forever to build sandbags and stuff. It takes them about half a day to build a single sandbag tile.

4. Also, just my opinion, tools are very wood extensive right now. I tried playing on a desert map, and between making tools, the non-optional wood-using benches, beds(all version uses wood in this mod) and fueling my early food processors and stuff I find myself constantly out of wood. Considering how important they are in this mod, would you consider lowering the wood cost of tools? It might make playing in certain biomes abit more forgiving specially when using Jack Arbiter storyteller(more pawn = more tool/bed = more wood drain).

5. Last minor one, but I noticed a typo(technically). On the info on stone walls it states that they're "the only inflammable wall". It should be "uninflammable" :p. BTW, are they really the only uninflammable wall? Can the framed ones catch fire? Their flammability is set at 0% though?

Thanks! Those are two of my favorite things as well. Both just random ideas, but they turned out alright.

...

1. Oops. Looks like I have to fix hauling bots driving after all. Dammit.

2. I can't adjust how their inventory spawns or how their inventory is traded without invasive detours and getting complicated. As it is now, despite what any tooltip says their speed is reduced by whatever cart they spawn with and this avoids any actual inventory speed reduction (because they are attached to a vehicle). This reduction in speed is roughly equal to the normal reduction in speed of their companions when they spawn in with normal apparel and weapons, so the pack tends to move together. So even though it'd be better if you could see their trade goods in the cart, this would take a lot of work (and might conflict with other mods) and the cart IS actually important to keep their move speed from being impossibly slow.

3. DAMMIT. I'll see what the hell I can do to fix this, raids are annoyingly hard to edit. I can't even make sandbags made of stuff (leather or cloth choice) or the siege will break.

4. All good points, I'll try to make wood a choice in most cases or reduce certain wood costs.

5. I have an undergrad and master's in English, and calling it "inflammable" is a total fail on my part And no, they're not the only uninflammable one, I thought regular stone walls had some small amount of flammability but I was wrong. I need to change the description of wood log walls as well, I think the whole "don't transmit electricity" thing was a holdover from an older version of Rimworld - stone walls were my "creation" but wood log walls were someone else's.

Thanks for the feedback.

(hauling loop, other discussion)

...

Tweaks / Wishlist

• I personally would prefer it if robots didn't use ATVs, but I don't mind them using my carts. Both are a little silly - I personally think that robots probably shouldn't be able to use vehicles. If people like the feature, could we get a checkbox on the robots or on the vehicles that is just "allow robot use" or "allow vehicle use"?
• Most weapons don't list what types of ammo they can shoot. I'm getting better about remembering, but on the first time around, this was really confusing. Can we add a blurb about what ammo each weapon can fire?
• Similarly, smelting ammo would be way better if handled with a separate task from smelt weapon. Currently, smelting ammo results in x1 of that ammo being smelted down. I think it would be plenty balanced to be able to smelt ammo down by whatever size stack a colonist can carry, and yield 75% (or whatever is standard for deconstructing) of the metal resources that went into that ammo.
• Finally, several late game objects do not create a "work in progress" item when they are started crafting (skydrill and drill head specifically, may be others). This means that they need to be crafted all in one go (or without any other colonist touching the materials during crafting), which is difficult to do. Also, the skydrill specifically says "crafting personal shield" while being made

...
Let me end by saying again how much I enjoy this mod!

I'll be trying to address the smaller loop problems at some point. The larger hauling loop problem you mention and the breaking down of textiles you mentioned later have already been fixed, I'm assuming you're still using 0.5 instead of 0.6. Grogfeld and LetheNyx have answered a few other points (thanks ya'll), and I'll answer the rest here.

...

• Since there are errors when a bot drives a vehicle but then charges I'll have to fix this one way or another. I'm not sure how I'll address it. My main problem is I don't want hauling bots to be gimped vs. normal pawns. May just make them move much faster and ban them from driving or attempting to haul via the cart job.
• If you click the info of a weapon (the i icon) it will automatically show whichever ammo it can use. If a weapon is equipped and doesn't have the i icon you can rightclick it and select "information."
• I want to make a smelt ammo that is versatile (I just use CR's version), similar to skullywag's textile breakdown I use but I'd have to tweak it for stacks I assume. I'm tired of having tons of unwanted ammo everywhere. For the moment Grogfeld's is as good a fix as any, and I can add a few more stack sizes in there, but expensive ammo wouldn't be able to break back down into FSX and such, which is a pain.
• Thanks for reporting that, that's my bad, I'll make some unfinished thing defs to let them make those easier to make. And I'll fix the skydrill crafting description.

...

Thanks
And thanks for the feedback.

I'd like to find a better alternative to the ammo storage currently used, but I'm not sure there is one that doesn't require significant development. All the others just seem to increase stack size.

I had some mechanoids spawn in on ATVs the other day. Was not fun. Not sure how to fix without a hacky workaround, I was lucky to get the ATVs to work at all for raids and I have limited control over what happens there. Obviously I can make the mechanoids unable to ride them, but then there are 3 or 4 free ATVs sitting there. Will probably have to have them destroyed if being ridden my a mechanoid, but still that's real hacky.

I'll be working on this tonight (well, maybe) and tomorrow night, so if there are more things bugging anyone or not working right, now is the time to let me know.

[Grogfeld]

1. Yea, my small addon was created in haste just to address slow smelting work problem. To get any other resource without altering source code, you would need to add few recipes to workbench, which isn't that bad because there is so little recipes at electric smelter. I could add some recipes by myself and balance out this infinite steel production. So no more steel from stone arrows

2. Description doesn't show ammo type if you want to craft a weapon.

[CrownBee]

Some more strange behaviors I have found:

There is no benefit to "reclaiming fabric" from any level of tools. The work is performed, but nothing is reclaimed. I'm guessing that's because tools are made of wood + metal. Can we make it so we just get the metal back?

Replacing someones arms with bionics makes them unable to wear tools.

As someone pointed out above, when a siege happens, the raiders really need to spawn with tools.

Is there a way to guarantee that some gold spawns? I found myself mining out an entire mountain while technologically stuck because of a lack of gold for a multi-analyzer. I eventually hit a pocket of gold, which was enough, so maybe this is intended?

There are some discrepancies in the tech tree, especially higher up. For example - computing and advanced computing can be unlocked without display technology. There are also several production benches that unlock too early, but I didn't write them down, so now I can remember which. For advanced bionics, I never got the advanced 3d printer to unlock.

Wishlist: make more than one component at a time with the 3d printer. Maybe unlocked at a higher level of tech? Last time I ran into a wall with components, this time I ran into so many machinery pockets I was able to build the 3d printer no problem. There are some benefits to mining out a mountain.

Also, space traders are very few and far between. This makes the hyperspace transponder worth the energy cost, but I get maybe 1 space trader / year without it. Is this as intended? Another wishlist item: as soon as the hyperspace transponder is charged, it should call for a ship. Right now, there doesn't seem any point in waiting, as the ship type it calls is random anyway. That would be a great trade-off (and option to be able to choose) - call immediately for a random ship, or re-roll for a random ship every 24 hours until the ship type selected is found and guided in.

[Grogfeld]

Reclaiming fabric works only on stuff made of stuff Jokes aside, it works only on things that have in name fabric that are made of, for example "cloth parka" will give you cloth. If tools were made of steel (steel tools) then you would get steel from them etc.

I don't remember correctly but on mountain and hilly places there should always be gold on map. Remember that there are always traders and no, space traders showing chance is the same as in vanilla.

[nakie]

I don't know how to mod so I don't know how valid this would be, but I have a suggestion regarding wire fences for early game. Can you maybe modify Rikiki's laser mod and turn it into just a wire fence instead of laser? It would be awesome if we can have one where you can even untie the wire to temporarily open the fence, or maybe even a rope fence.

[Minnigin]

can't build advanced 3d printer, or am I missing something, all research completed

[nakie]

can't build advanced 3d printer, or am I missing something, all research completed

The regular printer is the 3D Component Printer. "Advanced 3D Printer" is the Nano Printer and Scanner. You can't build those?

[Minnigin]

can't build advanced 3d printer, or am I missing something, all research completed

The regular printer is the 3D Component Printer. "Advanced 3D Printer" is the Nano Printer and Scanner. You can't build those?

I can but they only "print" things from the scanner, where are the advanced components and advanced bionics?