Transgender bathroom arguement.

Started by mumblemumble, May 09, 2016, 10:39:06 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Kegereneku

Quote from: Pactrick Willis on July 05, 2016, 11:12:18 AMhttp://publisher.attn.com/sites/default/files/suicide%20attempts%20williams%20institute.png

Remember when I said : "The pressure from anti-LGBT people cause more problems than the existence of atypical persons." ?
I'm not surprised they are more likely to kill themselves when there's more morons telling them "You are not natural, go kill yourself !".

Aside, that's like arguing "women can't drive" using a chart about the "number of women driver in Saudi Arabia" (so you know : Saudi law forbid women to drive, I hope you see the point).
A great number of country still apply retarded laws forcing LGBT person (or other minority) to live miserably for no valid reason. (for all we hear about the USA being the land of Freedom it's pretty bad at this)

So your link is basically pushing the point that we should accommodate LGBT people better in our society, legalize same-sex marriage, recognize gender switch, fight against any form of gender discrimination ...etc
"Sam Starfall joined your colony"
"Sam Starfall left your colony with all your valuable"
-------
Write an Event
[Story] Write an ending ! (endless included)
[Story] Imagine a Storyteller !

Pactrick Willis

Quote from: Kegereneku on July 09, 2016, 06:51:34 AM
Quote from: Pactrick Willis on July 05, 2016, 11:12:18 AMhttp://publisher.attn.com/sites/default/files/suicide%20attempts%20williams%20institute.png

Remember when I said : "The pressure from anti-LGBT people cause more problems than the existence of atypical persons." ?
I'm not surprised they are more likely to kill themselves when there's more morons telling them "You are not natural, go kill yourself !".

Aside, that's like arguing "women can't drive" using a chart about the "number of women driver in Saudi Arabia" (so you know : Saudi law forbid women to drive, I hope you see the point).
A great number of country still apply retarded laws forcing LGBT person (or other minority) to live miserably for no valid reason. (for all we hear about the USA being the land of Freedom it's pretty bad at this)

So your link is basically pushing the point that we should accommodate LGBT people better in our society, legalize same-sex marriage, recognize gender switch, fight against any form of gender discrimination ...etc
I've decided to change my point of view on Trans. Sure, be a 'man' or 'woman'. Just don't expect a single dime to come out of my pocket to make accommodation- your fantasy, your money. Nor expect me to allow you to use the bathroom of the opposite sex- if you where born with a penis, you go to the men's, and vise versa. Other than that, go ahead and pursue your delusion.

Kegereneku

If your money is your only preoccupation I'll say "don't worry then".
The only subject as hand is how to rework old rules to copes with modern paradigm and dismiss old dogma.
If there's any cost in this, it will not be to pay for anyone's fantasy, it will only be in the pursuit of equal Human Rights regardless of gender, beliefs, skin color &    ...future-tech surgery**.

anyway it's not like it cost anything to accept transgender into the bathroom they relate to, you simply have to NOT make discriminatory laws that goes against established equal Human's Right.
*We will only have a real conundrum the day when medical science create an actual "third gender" or human hermaphrodite.

I like people who change their point of view but I have to say that your opinion still look like the same.

IMO, what organs you were born with isn't relevant in the debate, the idea that it determine what you "actually are" (in the "light of god" or something) is an old dogma that should be dropped (just like we stopped thinking that disease were "bad blood" to flush away). Same goes for the idea that males and females must necessarily be segregated for some reason that transcend all.
Even the rationalization that Gendered-bathroom "exist to protect women" is more of an man-made embellishment to eclipse that at the time rape-prevention was more like preventing "property damage" (and women were punished if they failed to protect themselves).

I'm repeating myself but nowadays gendered-room are only a matter of practicality and luxury.
"Sam Starfall joined your colony"
"Sam Starfall left your colony with all your valuable"
-------
Write an Event
[Story] Write an ending ! (endless included)
[Story] Imagine a Storyteller !

RickyMartini

It seems to me like Patrick Willis still thinks it's either a delusion or a fantasy (depending on where I quote). Just keep in mind that gender dysphoria is a medically diagnosed disorder, so the probability that those people don't chose their disorder is really high. To say otherwise and disagree with doctors just because of ideological reasons is unprofessional imho.

Kegereneku

Technically speaking everything can be reworded as a disorder. Including traits human evolved out of natural selection, were beneficial in the past, but are problematic today (ex : job burn-out). As such many societal rules and medical diagnosis we use everyday also double as social engineering.

Our civilization is basically in the process of rationalizing old dogma around "gender-roles". Which is much needed if we are to face one day prospects like Immortality or Intelligent-enhancing treatments, let alone other crazy futuristic concept.
"Sam Starfall joined your colony"
"Sam Starfall left your colony with all your valuable"
-------
Write an Event
[Story] Write an ending ! (endless included)
[Story] Imagine a Storyteller !

RickyMartini

Yes granted I do not know enough about what constitutes as disorder etc, the medical word is not exactly my field of expertise.

ApatheticExcuse

This conversation is still happening? I swear this was an old thing last time I visited the forums months ago.

Anyway. I personally don't care which bathroom whoever uses. They have stalls for that. I guess I can't speak for non-north american rooms, but it's not like most of us waddle around in there with our pants down or spend our time peeking under the aforementioned stalls. Anyone doing so has some more serious issues than gender confusion.

I'd agree that I shouldn't have to use my tax money to fix whatever the "problem" is here though. Something like 40% of what I earn already goes to shit I don't really care about much. Let the people who don't like sharing bathrooms pay for new ones, and let the people who want a new body pay for that.

mumblemumble

#112
Quote from: Skissor on July 19, 2016, 09:16:59 AM
It seems to me like Patrick Willis still thinks it's either a delusion or a fantasy (depending on where I quote). Just keep in mind that gender dysphoria is a medically diagnosed disorder, so the probability that those people don't chose their disorder is really high. To say otherwise and disagree with doctors just because of ideological reasons is unprofessional imho.
Gender DYSPHORIA is NOT transgenderism. Gender dysphoria is a feeling of insecurity / self hate at ones gender, transgenderism is attempting to BE the other gender.

One is a CURABLE mental illness (ive had it, and have been cured) Another is a VOLUNTARY choice of lifestyle. And since these thoughts can be cured WITHOUT transition (and is much better this way) Calling it a fantasy, or delusion is not far off, as it can be cured.

This is like a black person being insecure about being black, and bleaching their skin. The insecurity is real, them being "white" is not.

Also http://www.sexchangeregret.com/

Regret happens, and most who go through the full transition regret it. And many who transition transition back later. The fact that people are supported in such delusions is harmful to more than just them.

Quote from: milon on June 15, 2016, 03:01:25 PM
Adding to what Skissor said, gender is certainly more complicated that looking at the outside of the body.

Doctors in my country (USA) used to shout "It's a girl!" or "It's a boy!" when a woman gave birth.  They don't anymore.  Sometimes infant anatomy is vague (small male genitals and large female genitals look identical), and sometimes there's a been developmental anomaly that leaves doctors scratching their heads.  Doctors now clean the baby and take a close look before announcing gender - if they do announce it at all.

Also, it's rare, but sometimes a human being with an XY chromosome set is immune to testosterone.  The presence of testosterone in utero is what triggers development as a male, and without it we would all develop as female - unless you're immune to it (which I believe means a lack of testosterone receptors).  The result is a human being who looks and functions purely as a female, but a genetic test reveals they're technically male.  And that's not even touching on people who have 3 chromosomes, like XXY.  What then?  :P
This is 1, a false argument, saying "SOME people are this way, therefor everyone who is trans is this way". Most trans people do not have both genitals, or SRS would be MUCH easier. The stuff you mention are abnormalities, dysfunctions, mutations, ect : Not normal. And again, its not representative of all, or even most trans people. Even if you say you aren't trying to say this, this data has nothing to do with the argument. Smaller or larger than average genitals doesn't change WHAT genitals they are. A monster clitoris is NOT a penis, and a micropenis is NOT a vagina. And testosterone receptors is also not representative of most, because most trans "women" are functional men with testosterone before all the medical malpractice.

As for 3 chromosones, this is clearly a mutation, an error, many deformed / retarded children, and the body USUALLY aborts them via miscarriage, detecting they are unhealthy, are dysfunctional, broken. Nature has a way of trying to weed them out, some get through, and those humans have down syndrome, or other stuff...you saying down syndrome is a sexuality? Brings a whole new meaning to "I'm down for sex". In  all seriousness though, in nature these things would not survive, and certainly not reproduce. the odds of them being born, being brought up, surviving alone, and managing to mate is very slim.

Quote from: milon on June 28, 2016, 02:00:39 PM
That's both unhelpful and misleading.  Yes, doctors can be wrong.  But so can patients.  And you can be wrong too.  I could be wrong.  Anyone can be wrong.  By putting the spotlight of 'potential wrongness' on a subset of humanity you're communicating the assumption that that group is more wrong (or more likely to be wrong) than the rest.  Which is why your statement was unhelpful and misleading.
Well, maybe they ARE wrong? maybe they ARE delusional? Most trans people have no physical basis for their transition, and all their feelings are entirely mental. Going back to you mentioning abnormalities, chromosome changes, ect, first off, do these people go trans ? Often no. Do people who are trans have these traits? Not as often as you would lead me to believe. Trans people feel this way entirely on a mental and emotional basis. And many people stop transition, regret it, feel embarrassed, commit suicide, or even go through SRS and have DRAMATICALLY increased suicide rates, and as posted above, MANY people regret going through it,  and these are just recorded ones (a person who kills themselves with regret without voicing it isn't counted statistically)

This is an awful argument, yes, he might be wrong sometimes, but this doesn't mean because hes wrong sometimes, that trans people are right. This is discrediting via a possible past history at absolute best. If they ARE more wrong, and DO have more problems, than they have more problems. Your indication that hes saying "most trans people are wrong" is also dubious : If they are actually more wrong, what is bad about saying this? If I say most women are weaker than most men, is this sexist? It IS true, sure, some women are stronger than me, but they aren't representative of the average. And theres plenty of evidence showing things are not right with trans people : Higher drinking rate, drug use, self mutilation, risk of abusive relationships (and willingly STAYING in them, because they know they aren't wanted by most, so take any form of acceptance they can get, even if they get hurt) Temper issues, incarceration for violent crimes, higher std rates, higher rates of other mental illnesses, ect ect... Generally speaking, being transgender is EXTREMELY unhealthy. And really, show me a person who has been transgender for 40 or so years?...You often don't find a trans person whom has transitioned while young, and becomes old, you find young trans people who went trans in the past 10 or so years, or old people for the same. This is because most die by suicide, OD, or whathave you, or detransition (YES, it exists) so this I think this is evidence as well that the SRS doctors, and trans people are wrong. It DOESN'T help longterm wellbeing.
Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

#113
You know, I'm not gonna start a new argument again, because you mumblemumble, are notorious in this particular forum for jumping onto every discussion about transgenderism or the whole "bathroom argument" every time when there is a chance. And I know that your discussions can be dragged out very long.

So don't take it as an insult when I just go trough this briefly without actually addressing all of your points. So if you feel like I left something out, pardon me, it's not supposed to be an insult.  8)



Okay. So my original comment in this thread (if you scroll back) was basically "if most doctors agree that the best method to treat gender disphoria is trough gender reassignment, then so be it."

That's actually already it. I do find your website interesting, however you're implying that pretty much the majority of transgender people fall into the category of "I regret my reassignment". I'm sorry to tell you but a website falls short in proving that, statistics are the only way to go. Whether there is data about it or not, I do not know but I'd be happy to know.


But the most important point should be repeated here again. If someone thinks that medical professionals/experts are wrong, then you need to provide empirical proof for that, otherwise it's just your fee fee's. Just saying "many regret it and many feel bad about it" doesn't cut it.

mumblemumble

#114
I don't take offense, I know I have a rep on here for my beliefs (and I'm sure, given the opportunity, a few people wouldn't mind trying to assassinate me for it) So I don't mind you trying to distance yourself, no offense taken.

Problem is with "most doctors" is this ITSELF is an issue of institution. Many doctors ARE open about being against transgenderism, this said, laws are in place preventing "discrimination", and doctors who disagree face extremely heavy pressure if they disagree with the status quo.

As for MOST regret it, well yes, at some point, but CERTIANLY not openly. If you got convinced that doing something like say, cutting off your hand and "replacing it with a bionic one" was a good idea, but it turns out to be nothing like what they said, would you enjoy talking about it? Certainly not! nobody likes being made a fool of, and few would have the fortitude to admit "I felt insecure, I got my dick chopped off, I regret it". Instead they would feel even more insecure, scared, frightened, helpless, and would hide, and maybe kill themselves to escape the shame.

And while I agree with evidence, most institutions WONT do studies on them because its "discriminatory". But many medical experts HAVE noted that theres trends where transgenderism :
-Does not actually improve mental function
-Worsens things later, and has a DRAMATICALLY higher suicide rate, particularly for SRS. At this point they can even be passing with hormones, so the bullying theory is faulty.
-Can go away by itself much of the time. many people encounter gender dysphoria, have depression for a while, but eventually get over it like I did. Its insecurity, is all it is

And sure, these are not empirical statistics, but I've not really heard of many old transgender people. And by OLD, I dont mean they are old AND trans, I mean they have been trans for 20 years or so. I actually googled old trangender people, and got a bunch of people who are trans, but only became so in the past  5 years. So this is also an indication, how long is this sustainable in someones life? After all, dickheads come and go, but truth NEVER dies... and you can't really run from it.

also, what SPECIFIC statistic would you need to see? higher suicide rates? those exist. Higher drug use? those exist. Higher rate of mental illness? Those exist. Higher rate of violent crime? Those exist. Higher STD rate? Those exist.

So what statistic is not covered which would PROVE its unhealthy? Theres proof of all those, what SPECIFIC thing would have to be proven atop all this, to make you believe? What study? What measurable factor? What statistic, what effect, how MUCH indications that they have higher risks problems, and unhealthy traits would we need before you say "Alright, I agree, it is unhealthy and wrong"? Where is the line?
Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

#115
A lot of claims here. I think the time has come where I have to ask for you to carefully back up your claims. Otherwise, I'm just going to take this as your personal opinion.

QuoteMany doctors ARE open about being against transgenderism, this said, laws are in place preventing "discrimination", and doctors who disagree face extremely heavy pressure if they disagree with the status quo.
So you're claiming conspiracy. You're claiming that a medical field, which is a scientific field, is actually wrong because of agenda/politics/conspiracy. That's going to be very difficult to prove. So, citation needed.  ;)

QuoteAs for MOST regret it, well yes, at some point, but CERTIANLY not openly.
Citation needed.

QuoteAnd while I agree with evidence, most institutions WONT do studies on them because its "discriminatory"
Citation needed.

Quote-Does not actually improve mental function
-Worsens things later, and has a DRAMATICALLY higher suicide rate, particularly for SRS. At this point they can even be passing with hormones, so the bullying theory is faulty.
-Can go away by itself much of the time. many people encounter gender dysphoria, have depression for a while, but eventually get over it like I did. Its insecurity, is all it is
3 different citations needed.




Quotealso, what SPECIFIC statistic would you need to see? higher suicide rates? those exist. Higher drug use? those exist. Higher rate of mental illness? Those exist. Higher rate of violent crime? Those exist. Higher STD rate? Those exist.

That is an excellent question actually. What am I looking for specifically? I'll try to frame it as unambiguous as possible:

Quote"I want statistics that show which medical treatment is the most beneficial to transgender people. This means that statistics are needed which show that the treatment in question leads to lower suicide rates and higher quality of life in general. I think as of now, the treatments included are hormone therapy, gender reassignment and the last one, which would be only psychological treatment instead of medical treatment."

mumblemumble

#116
Oh boy....

Medical might be based off science, transgenderism is NOT. SRS is not. None of those treatments has a scientific basis for being beneficial long term. So I guess its up to you, provide proof that its beneficial long term.

As for regret, a citation is a dumb request, because of what I said in my quote : Its rarely open, its suppressed, and internalized, not something they would willingly put on a census report, but can be exposed with a bit of digging, prodding, and finding insecurity in such people. So its not up to me to provide evidence they are wrong (which the statistics on drinking, drugs, stds, incarceration, abuse, ect, indicate) But them to prove they are right. I mean, they are doctors in a science based field right? So they must have more evidence than I could cover on why its worth it...RIGHT?! I mean, the 20 fold suicide rate can TOTALLY make sense if you provide something, right?!

Considering GOVORNMENT STATISTICS of trans get looked at as discriminatory, do you really think studies would be SUPPORTED if they indeed showed stuff completely disproving it? no. And how do you COUNT detransitioning statistically? If they no longer get hormones? If they go to the doctor and cancel hormones? If they vanish from treament? If they formally declare "I am not trans anymore"? Depending what you classify as detransitioning, it DOES happen, but somewhere along the lines you figure some would fall through the cracks and not be counted. If a person simply never went to their doctor again, stopped buying hormones, would they be counted? These are questions we need to ask, and it also provides a difficult thing on transgender people in general : How do you classify and count them? If I wore a dress, someone could count me as transgender, despite identifying as a man.  Crossdressers, butch / fems, hormone takers, surgery recepients all count. But its also very easy to choose TO, or TO NOT count someone : Hypothetically, lets say you want to say trans people are common. You could do a study and count anyone who crossdresses, anyone who admits to gender dysphoria as any sort (I would be counted as trans in the past, figure that) anyone who says they dont feel incredibly masculine / feminine as transgender. Because of this, the numbers would INFLATE! So you could say "wow, look, all these trans people exist!" and then it looks like they are very common, even though you dont specify some of them just have crossdressed at some point. Conversely, you can say, look at violent statistics... how do you count if a trans person is say, doing a murder? If they are wearing a dress, are they trans? if they are on hormones, are they trans? If they had surgery, are they trans? For criminal, and court statistics mind you : And most trans still get put into born gender cells. So theres a good possibility a pervert wearing a dress, going in a bathroom and snapping pictures would get counted as "male" on the statistics for crime, because he has a penis, masculine features, ect, and most cops obviously won't give a crap. So for crime, they could be underrepresented. So this presents a very interesting question. what EXACTLY makes a person trans? If we do not answer this, all statistics on this are potentially GROSSLY inaccurate. If you say crossdressers are trans, then ALL crossdressers should be considered trans all the time. Otherwise its left up to statistical discretion what gets counted as what. And science doesn't have room for that many variables to throw off data

Please provide proof it DOES improve mental function. Theres proof theres a higher suicide rate, which indicates otherwise. Why is a 20x suicide rate healthier, you figure?

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/ http://transadvocate.com/fact-check-study-shows-transition-makes-trans-people-suicidal_n_15483.htm Done, suicide rates. Surprised I have to look this up considering LGBT talk about the suicide rate so much, but if you want to feign ignorance, I will play along. Though, if you want to feign ignorance, you will be viewed as ignorant. Keep in mind, this is EVEN with the challenge of "What is transgender" mentioned above, where statistics are hard to get, but it mentions a 20 FOLD INCREASE in suicide.

Google detransition. It happens. This alone is proof that it goes away sometimes. also http://www.sexchangeregret.com/ incase you forgot. Pretty sure there might be stories of detransition there too, wouldn't shock me. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2224753/Ria-Cooper-Britains-youngest-sex-change-patient-reverse-treatment.html#ixzz2AyFR0XCs This person was in the news for being trans, and detransitioned. Figure that.

Well lets see, conversion therapy and  trying to disuade someones delusions about gender is ILLEGAL in most places, so its kinda hard to show statistics if you get arrested for showing them, now isn't it? Not to mention even when there was people going in, people would say it was "suppressing who they were" and stuff, with no regard for if life quality improved. And again of "what is transgender". One could easily argue if someone was cured by conversion and felt better that "they were never trans to begin with, and were just confused". But that is a double standard, and more proof we need a CLEAR, CONCISE DEFINITION of what transgender is that CANNOT be flexed on a whim. Imagine if I ran a club, that was secretly murdering folks, but I state "people only are in this club if they SAY they are in the club at the time", then I could absolve all guilt from the club by having anyone caught saying they aren't in the club. Same premise, transgender is counted by if they SAY they are, but people can pick what they say.

LOOK, IM TRANSGENDER! see? I'm transgender, because I say I am. I IDENTIFY as transgender, so therefor I am right? nevermind the rest of my post, that was in the past!

....see the problem? Its so ridiculously ambiguous, so vague, that any person can identify at any time, and WITHDRAW identity at any time. Theres nothing stopping this, is there? Absolutely nothing, because by definition its "who identifies as", so all outside opinion is 100% irrelevant, by that definition.

oh and side note on the kinsey scale study : Young people are stupid generally, and haven't learned to think completely properly yet. Keep in mind im 25, grew up with LGBT indoctrination (Tolerate! Gay is normal! Trans people aren't different! Acceptance! Don't treat them different!) And had a trans "best friend" for 5 years. Yet despite all this, I'm anti LGBT... why? because I grew, and learned, and asked enough questions. Young people generally ask less questions. What I would LOVE to see, is a 15 year study asking gay, bi, and trans people about their status, then returning later to see what changed. I'm sure many would be dead by suicide or drugs, and many would be back to normal.
Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

#117
I think you misunderstood me. I generally want to know whether gender reassignment is a better therapy than hormone therapy or psychiatric counseling, not whether the existence of transgender people is "legitimized" or whatever thing you're trying to prove, which quite frankly is fucked up and I do not agree with you.

So pretty much 99% of what you wrote can be thrown in the gutter, you misunderstood me. Best example: Your 20 times higher suicide rate. That suicide rate is for transgender people in general, not for people after gender reassignment. It's not what I'm even disputing.

There are no statistics proving that people with gender dysphoria have higher suicide rates after a gender reassignment.

Actually, your own source says that's not the case at all. Your own source disagrees with you, maybe read it next time instead of posting it to feel legitimate?  ;)

Gender reassignment 1 : 0 No Gender reassignment

Still waiting for you to back up any of your claims. No citation for "regret". No citation for "doctors face hard pressure". No citation for "higher suicide rate after reassignment". No citation to back up your claims at all, which you wan't to pass of as fact but they are actually your opinion.

Also, I'm older than you. (It has no relevance here anyway)

mumblemumble

#118
I understood you just fine. Gender reassignment is ineffective because http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 . Legitimacy is also low because of that, and shows its mentally unhealthy. I don't care if you think its fucked up, its facts. DEAL WITH IT.

NEGATIVE. Read the big black letters http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 : "Long-term (30 years) follow-up of transsexual persons undergoing sex reassignment surgery: cohort study in Sweden" . Apparently, you cannot read.

Again http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 . Also nice wording. How is "people with gender dysphoria" different? Also aren't people considered "cured" of gender dysphoria when they do srs, because the symptoms go away (I think so, but legitimately asking because I don't know)? Is that worth it, even when they kill themselves?

Your article you posted is complete bullshit.
As you can see, this is the graph from the article it talks about. it follows along 30 years.

They say that this cannot show the results of SRS....well, what would you call results? How DO we see the results? They did this, and the results were higher suicide rates. What is the argument that this is NOT caused by this, but by something else? How WOULD we test for the results?

The treatment for mood stabilizing and anti-psychotic treatment is ALSO bull : Why would someone, who is cured, and fine, need mood stabilizing treatment, or ESPECIALLY anti psychotics (especially for over 10 years)? And why would mood stabilizing treatment cause suicide? Unless its shitty mood stabilizing. Should we do a study where its the same, but NO mood stabilization is given? We just do the surgery, shuffle them out the door? Do you really think this would mean LESS suicide?

Also, along 30 years, people should, if this indeed work, taper off after a while. Yet suicides continue, years in. Sooooo....mood stabilization was the killer, after 20 years? This is your story?

Also, you bringing up you being older than me (possible, but doesn't mean you deserve extra respect) And then saying that has no relevance only makes you look like an idiot....if its not relevant, why did you type it, and send it? Did you have a brain fart? Did you forget the backspace key? Did you have a stroke and type that?  Or was this just a pathetic jab at me saying I'm "young" by comparison, and trying to cover it with "its not relevant" right after, so I supposedly cannot bring it up? Because you brought it up first. So you are saying something irrelevant, at ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, you must admit you did that. Its also funny since most older people against LGBT are called "old farts stuck in the past", yet you say that.

Also, him saying the 2 groups from different time periods is heresay. I'd like to see some proof of this, outside a trans advocate site. Theres nothing to indicate what hes saying being true. If I published a study, and dislike the results, me posting something else seperate does not mean the results were different. This detail was NOT part of the results, so theres no way to tell if this is true, or a dirty lie. If you want to find the part in the document (meaning this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 and ABSOLUTELY no other place) SHOWING that this is the case, please do, otherwise, I'm rejecting it as there's no evidence. Also, that man is NOT my source, the STUDY is my source. If I buy you a car, am I the source of your ride home? NO, the car is.

And reminder, legally speaking, absolutely nothing prevents a MAN from SAYING hes trans at ANY point to abuse this law. Nothing whatsoever. This includes sex offenders, and child molesters. Literally any man who states "I am a woman" has access.
Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

#119
QuoteAlso, you bringing up you being older than me (possible, but doesn't mean you deserve extra respect) And then saying that has no relevance only makes you look like an idiot....if its not relevant, why did you type it, and send it? Did you have a brain fart? Did you forget the backspace key? Did you have a stroke and type that?  Or was this just a pathetic jab at me saying I'm "young" by comparison, and trying to cover it with "its not relevant" right after, so I supposedly cannot bring it up? Because you brought it up first. So you are saying something irrelevant, at ABSOLUTE MINIMUM, you must admit you did that. Its also funny since most older people against LGBT are called "old farts stuck in the past", yet you say that.

I..... what.... I.... Dude you said your age first, that's why I ironically responded my age. You said that "You're 25 and younger people tend to be dumber". That was you implying I was younger than you, that's why I responded with my age saying I'm actually older. Don't try to accuse me of playing foul when I didn't.

Also, thanks for bringing in the first swear word against me. ;)  2 : 0


And to pretty much end this discussion, again:

High suicide rates for transgender people aren't surprising. You again wrote around 3000 - 4000 characters explaining to me how transgender people have a high suicide rate.... Yet my whole point here was that transgender people don't have a higher suicide rate after a gender reassignment.

QuoteAlso, him saying the 2 groups from different time periods is heresay. I'd like to see some proof of this, outside a trans advocate site. Theres nothing to indicate what he's saying being true.

First, I want you to acknowledge that you posted a source that you now suddenly disagree. Do you or do you not acknowledge this? Because if you do, I think it's a really unfair move of you, because it implies that you just started googling for stuff that reaffirmed your view and then posted it without fully reading the actual article.

QuoteI'd like to see some proof of this, outside a trans advocate site. Theres nothing to indicate what he's saying being true.

The transgender advocate article actually features the very lead author explaining the study that you cited.

QuoteYour article you posted is complete bullshit.

The article that I posted (which, by the way, is exactly the same article that you also posted  ::)) is bullshit, so then explain why? Our article that we posted is a discussion with the lead Author of this study discussing and explaining why it is being severely misinterpreted.

Now I'm not sure if this would be too tedious if I started quoting stuff from the article... Since it's an online article, everyone can open it up and read if for themselves. But the fact is, and you do have to acknowledge this, is that the article is featuring the lead author of this study, and the lead author of the study explains why his study is being misused and misrepresented.

You really need to lay back, read things two times and then start to write.

Gender reassignment 1 : 0 No gender reassignment