Transgender bathroom arguement.

[Zombra]

What the fuck?  Who is advocating anarchy?  :lol:  Do you really not understand the concept of equal rights, and why it's important to this country?

And yes, of course the rights of criminals are limited.  You just equated transexuals with criminals, you know that, right?

Jesus Christ.

[StorymasterQ]

I'm not American and I know very little about its history, but what's with this sexual orientation segregated toilets? I'm sure they tried it once with race and it went very badly.

Why not just build one toilet for everyone like the ones the Romans used? Or just do it outside like the ancient Greeks.

In the end, this is a tug of war between privacy and security, as usual.

[mumblemumble]

forgot already?

If you disavow the rights of a minority, America is fucked.

They (felons) are a minority. Their rights are oppressed, their rights are limited. Therefor, either you are wrong in saying America is fucked if a minority is oppressed, you need to provide classification for when rights can be taken away and for why, OR, you are have to say you also support full freedom for felons. Otherwise, you are contradicting your statements. Take your pick.

keep in mind you cannot say a blanket statement like

If you disavow the rights of a minority, America is fucked.

And then support felons having less rights without being a hypocrite.

And if you have absolutely no rules (rules are limitations of freedom inherently) then that IS anarchy, fyi. So rules DO need to be put in place (which inherently limit freedoms) to avoid full anarchy. It just depends on weighing what rights, and what protections are more important.

Story master, I'm speaking at Americas (very young) history of demographics. Primarily christian, has been for quite a long time. Now, you could claim something is "unamerican" for reasons other than history, but it is still a no true scotsman fallacy, as you aren't providing a reason, you are just pointing a finger and saying "UNAMERICAN" with no basis. I can do that too, but I will maintain my maturity.

[StorymasterQ]

As a non-American, I am the last person to say anything is un-American. I'm just saying, rather than making a toilet specifically for transgenders, let's just drop the walls altogether and go in one room for everyone.

Is that not equality?

[keylocke]

another weird counter-intuitive thing are the rape stats for nudist colonies.

most sources say that rape or any sexual assault in nudist colonies are either low or nonexistent, does anyone got stats for this? i can't seem to find a good source. 

[Zombra]

Man.  mumble, you are really arguing about the wrong things here.  I have to assume it's a deliberate deflection and not sheer stupidity.  Do you really believe I was arguing for complete anarchy and abolishing the very concept of crime?  Or are you just desperate to try (weakly) to make me look like a hypocrite because you're not competent to talk about the real issue: the importance of equal rights?

If you're incapable of using basic common sense and elementary school education to distinguish between concepts like freedom and lawlessness, or what a criminal is, without me spelling it out for you, there's no point in talking to you about anything.  We could spend 50 posts arguing about what you mean by "bathroom" every time you get scared of the actual conversation.  It's sad, really; for a minute there it looked like we could have an honest debate.

Oh well!  That's it for now, and remember kids: fuck minorities!

[StorymasterQ]

Oh well!  That's it for now, and remember kids: fuck minorities!

And remember, minorities: fuck...eh, wait a minute. As jokey as I am, I'm not going there.

[Zombra]

Hahaha.  Boo

[StorymasterQ]

YES! Let's derail this argument with jokes! Red with laughter is always better than red with anger!

Of course those natives are always red anyway.

(Oh here we go again with minorities!)

[mumblemumble]

Is that not equality?

Equality is a crappy, very flawed argument.

Is a man equal to a woman? A child equal to an elder? fork equal to a spoon?

Really depends what you are judging...

A man is more valuable to have on a hard labor job, while protecting a woman would be more important. Neither one is "inferior" across the board.

A child has much more potential than a late life old person as they have their entire life, while (generally speaking, mental illness and dementia aside) Elders are vastly more experienced. Neither one is "inferior" across the board

A fork is good for impaling foods and lifting them, puncturing, lifting and straining the moisture from foods. A spoon is better for moving liquids or highly loose / fine materials. Neither one is "inferior" across the board.

This is my problem with equality, people mistakenly figure pointing out a weakness of someone, or a group is saying they aren't equal, or are "subhuman" or whatever, just like Zomba was trying to say I was attempting to defame me for.

@zomba, wasn't saying you were advocating for anarchy but having "full freedom for everything" means "no rules" means "anarchy". Just putting that out there.

I never said "fuck minorities", only in situations where its strictly x benefits for minority or majority, majority should rule. Now most situations aren't this cut and dry, for instance disabled are a minority, but everyone agrees that you need accommodations for them, but this is because no MAJORITY suffers from it, and the minority is greatly suffering without it. Not so for the bathroom issue.

As for derailing the thread with jokes, I don't it appreciate attempting to lock me thread with such a tactic : I hope  mods instead temp ban people for such attempts, as this is a clear tactic to shut me up, by making the thread crazy to get it locked.

[StorymasterQ]

You're right. I apologize. I shall respectfully de-ass myself from this thread.

[godsring]

Over a problem no one in this forum can do anything about... this topic has gotten VERY heated and is going nowhere at this point.. I feel everyone has contributed as much as they can

[Listen1]

Yeah, I agree with godsring, I didn't see this post for a day and what the f***

The discussion was being heated all along, most of us are not native english speakers and have some kind of difficulty expressing and understanding expressions in english. Hell, when mumble started it looked like a pure hate mail, even milon warned him. But it's not what he meant.

Now i'm very sorry to say, if equality could be a thing, it would've showed up in history. Even in your RW colony the task distribution is not equal. Imagine trying to put it on a culture of 500 people. That's already really hard.

Now put it in a country that has 18 million people. Yeah, there's no way you can archive true equality. Even in socialism we have a pyramid economic scheme. The top of it is sustained by the botton.

Now let's only apply that to the bathroom. Breaking down the walls you can have at the same time. "Everyone is equal and will use the same bathroom." Now, in the same bathroom you may have:"A child, a rapist, a drunk chick, a cop, a businessman, an ugly woman, a beutiful man, and etc."

What's the difference from the actual bathroom? The genders are mixed up. If a rapist tries something on the drunk chick, do you believe everyone will help? Maybe yes. What if he has a knife? Maybe no. What if they were alone in that bathroom at that time?

That situation may come up in a mixed bathroom, way easier that it may happen in 2 separete bathrooms. So I'd say that this would not work towards our problem.

Needless to say, I don't have anything towards anyone, i'm just debating the idea.

[mumblemumble]

I don't believe 'nobody can do anything about it' ... Lawsuits are being issued all over,  and there's a political push to reverse such an asinine decision.

Even if nobody here does anything,  talking about it helps,  as then its not ignored. Also,  i hope maybe someone sees this and realizes the danger involved.

That said,  i kinda agree for at least myself,  I've touched on almost everything,  and explained almost everything. That said,  assuming the thread isn't locked over a dumb reason,  I'd rather let the thread naturally "die"  than be locked,, just so others can possibly post opinions and ideas,  particularly on how to solve things.

Rock,  yeah,  it did get heated,  sorry for that.  I just get really REALLY pissed off when people say something along the lines of "oh,  random men can go into womens shelters and rape women? Rape happens anyway so it doesn't matter.". That kind of talk is maliciously callous at absolute best,  and I don't want to go into what it is at worst.  That got me extremely  heated,  rape warps people,  damages them.

I do appreciate how you get what i mean about equality. Obviously I'm not great at everything,  some things you are better at than me,  vice versa,  same for men and women,  and trans / not trans.  Hell,  even in rimworld,  people who can only clean are useful,  because they clean.  This doesn't mean we shouldn't be in denial about problems and weaknesses,  as this only hurts everyone more.

And yeah,  bathrooms are pretty private. But I'm realizing something. If this trans stuff keeps up,  and especially if people push for only 1 bathroom,  males going with females for protection could be a not unheard of thing,  since all a husband or bf has to do is smile and say "I'm a girl"  and he can go in with her.

My concern is this won't always be available,  and especially for young girls,  this scares me. I suspect maybe cameras might be put in bathrooms too,  since privacy is already kinda being destroyed. But regardless,  security measures need to be put in place IN ALL BATHROOMS EVERYWHERE for this to work ,  and the simple solution is to force transgender people (particularly mtf)  to use the bathroom that matches the genitals. Course if they pass its different,  but by then,  i think mtfs are less risky to assault.  But a 5 o'clock shadow,  in drag "trans",  has absolutely no business in a womans bathroom.  Really,  just base it off if people pass,  if people question,  use the other one. Pretty simple.

[RickyMartini]

Wow, what the hell was this thread. Also, that random deviation about swedish men lol. That is by far the dumbest theory I've ever heard.