Physical fitness, meta-skills, (cleaning, wood cutting, stonecutting...)

[b0rsuk]

A poster felt uncomfortable that cleaning is called "dumb labor", anyone can do it, and there's no such thing as a skilled cleaner in Rimworld. He/she suggested having a separate cleaning skill.

Another recurring issue is what to do with 'simple' jobs like cutting trees, stonecutting, cleaning, hauling. It doesn't feel exactly right that they train no skill, but linking stonecutting to Crafting and cutting trees to Growing is a bit contrived, especially that those actions were barely affected by any skill anyway.

Meanwhile in his den b0rsuk was thinking about physical fitness and how Rimworld incorrectly treats Bad Back as untreatable. It is treatable - correct physical exercise removes nearly all symptoms.

That inspired me. I started thinking about meta skills. Those could cover a range of activities, especially jobs with no associated skill. It's really strange Rimworld has no concept of physical fitness!

------------------------------
Hard Work - is exercised when a pawn performs highly taxing physical activities, typically in short burts of time; weight lifting etc. In fitness terms, it's ANAErobic exercise. Benefits include increase in muscle mass, metabolism, endurance, resistance to fatigue, as well as increased appetite (more calories burnt when resting).

Game activities that train it: mining, smithing, stonecutting, building, cutting trees
In-game benefits: higher melee damage, higher resistance to damage (limbs have more HP), eats more food, needs less rest, Manipulation bonus. (Core muscle exercises counter Bad Back!)

Moderate work (athletics?) - is exercised when a pawn is subject to moderate effort over long periods of time. It's AErobic exercise. Benefits include better immune system, breathing, healthy heart (literally stronger heart muscle - lower chance of heart attack). Also resistance to stress - it's a natural high. Aerobic exercise is much better for burning calories than anaerobic exercise.

Game activities that train it: growing, cleaning, walking, hauling, clearing snow, maybe cooking ?
In-game benefits: faster Movement, mood bonus, stronger immune system, breathing. Counters Asthma!
-------------------

Those meta skills would be trained in a manner similar to how Joy system works. They would be raised A LOT quicker than normal skills, but also drop A LOT quicker. The idea is being "in shape". Repeating the same type of activity would build up tolerance, so a full-time cleaner won't gain THAT much unless he also hauls and takes care of plants. A full-time miner will gain more if he also tries smithing and cutting trees.

Hard Work and Medium Work - would help distinguish colonists. What they do at the colony would influence their fitness. Also, some backgrounds would start with high levels of fitness. Oaf, Worker, Janitor, Miner, Soldier, Farm Boy, Foundry Apprentice, Slave, Stableboy, Colony Settler, Pit Brawler, Rugby Player, Sex Slave.... meanwhile pencil pushers, aristocrats, artists, scientists would start out terrible.

Thoughts ?

====================
Other possible meta skills to consider in future:
Finger dexterity (lighter crafting jobs, sculpting, playing instruments, medicine)
Mental agility (Research; currently not enough skills to put here)
Social Network (for social skills and trade, but I don't feel Social skills are varied and and important enough in this game)

[deadspark]

i love the idea of fitness, it would be quite interesting to balance tho
pawns could have an extra trait line
"body type"
athletic
body builder
lazy
pc gamer
runner
etc

each trait afects passion for related skills, so a body builder will gain a flame in things like mining and halling but will loose a flame in things like planting and speech
perhaps a bodybuilder can carry more but run slower and an athletic could carry less but run faster

or have it set up like a disease where they start out as "normal" and the more they do of one type they change. so doing more walking/running will move along the line of athletic where they can run faster and if you then change there jobs to ones that use mucles like mining they loose there athletic buffs back to normal then gain into bodybuilder that can hall more stuff etc

[b0rsuk]

The way I imagined, "body builder" type fitness comes from "Hard Work". It may be a bettter name than "Hard Work" -  I'm not a native english speaker. You may be right that hauling sounds more like something for body builders than for sportsmen/gardeners.

"Athletic" - is it really so different from "Runner" ? Enough to warrant a separate meta skill in a game ? This is what I had in mind when coming up with "Moderate Work" meta skill.

lazy - gets neither meta skill on start.
pc gamer - games are very varied (Sims vs Nuclear Throne), but as much as I would like to pretend otherwise it builds neither muscle mass nor improves heart/lungs. Some games improve creativity, reflex, sometimes strategic thinking, and the ability to move backwards (backpedal is commonly used in FPS games but very rarely in nature, there are studies which show gamers are better at this!). So I'm afraid pc gamers would start with neither... What skills does a MMO train ? Memorization of cooldowns ?

[GarettZriwin]

Growing - You farm gold/xp.

[milon]

Awesome idea!  I love it.  I've actually thought it was weird that they all seemed to have the same strength (ie, the same carrying capacity).  And I think these ideas could be easily extended to animals - hauling is aerobic, while attacking enemies is anaerobic.

[b0rsuk]

Certainly a pampered yorkie is going to be fatter than a working husky.

A side effect of this fitness system would be that colonists or animals who literally can't do any serious work would become out of shape or even overweight. It may be fitting for the ones like Medieval Lord. If suddenly too many colonists become out of shape, we're going to need a gym, or at least "exercise" hours in the "restrict" tab!

But I think it would be very thematic. Some lords and aristocrats would refuse to do anything at all that makes them sweat. Meanwhile other backgrounds, like mercenaries, soldiers would have no problem with it. I already accept colonists whose only responsibility is shooting bad guys. Now it could be shooting bad guys + being in shape, so they're actually capable of earning their food with a gun!

[Chibiabos]

Stonecutting is linked to Crafting.  Mouseover 'Crafting' in the Work prioritization tab.  The higher a pawn's Crafting skill level, the faster they cut stones (not sure if they also get more blocks out of each chunk).  Plant cutting (whether chopping trees or harvesting berries or agave), hauling and cleaning are the only 3 not linked to any trait.

[b0rsuk]

And it barely has any effect on stonecutting, and it was only linked to crafting because people didn't like stonecutting improves no skill. It may as well be linked to Hard Work (or "Bodybuilder" or whatever) meta skill instead.

[Mikhail Reign]

'Body builder' isn't really a good example of a healthy body type. They aren't especially strong since the training focuses on mass and nothing else. Tendons end up weak since they aren't worked so the bulky muscles can just break them off the bones. I'd put a 'Hard Worker' against a body builder any day of the week, especially if the work is carrying heavy stuff.

[b0rsuk]

It's a strictly academic problem anyway, because there are no jobs in the game that would train "bodybuilder" but not qualify as hard work (There's probably a gym mod already as I type this).

Fitness could be linked to other systems in the game, for example fit characters would be considered more attractive by most. A faction could organize a fitness contest (like a party + some randomization based on fitness level). There could also be a chemical to boost muscle growth, naturally with side effects like manboobs.

[Thane]

This makes pawns much more dynamic and the world seem a bit more lively.

+1

[mumblemumble]

Love the idea, BUT, fit people requiring less rest is BS, athletes actually nap quite a bit. I do like the idea of higher general performance for bigger diet, and more rest though.

[b0rsuk]

Outside of Rimworld, rest isn't synonymous with sleep. I think that's what the article I read meant. There's no practical way to represent short rests in the game, it can be simulated with slightly faster work speed I guess...

What I like about this fitness system is that it's future proof. If more physical tasks are added to the game, they can be put under these umbrella skills.

[Adamiks]

Found this thread after googling "Rimworld cleaning skill", was looking for a mod that adds that. Considering i usually have one/two dedicated janitors, it's bugging me a little that opposite to everyone else, they will *never* improve at what they are doing. Although just adding a cleaning skill would be enough for me, a whole new body fitness system would be really neat too. I'm afraid it would be a *lot* of work in terms of actually adding and balancing it (less so adding it, more balancing it, imagine getting terminator-like strength from cleaning stuff lol), but, i don't think there's anyone who wouldn't want it in the game.

Revived the topic hoping some modders will pick it up, or maybe, who knows, Tynan might add it in the future.

EDIT
There are a few things that could be added to the hauling as well, to make it more of a skill and not just a dumb labor. I imagine that hauling things all day every day would eventually make you stronger (pawns could carry more) and possibly a tiny bit faster (not a lot, not to make it too op)

Actually, maybe just walking a lot in general could make the pawns a *tiny* bit faster.. Eh, nah, that would overwhelm the game too much, constantly updating everyone's "walking exp". I still like the idea of carrying more, though.