Alternative Defense Systems

[The-MathMog]

Soo, as we all know, it can be easy to fall into the good old killbox with turrets. So I want to see your defence systems, that isn't the classic bullet rain, kill box.

I was just messing around with setup earlier, using a single IED trap, and a bunch of artillery shells. And I can say that it works quite well for tribals at least. 45 entered the map, 15 ran away without a single bullet needing to be fired.

And cost wise I don't think that it's that bad either, as shells by themselves are only 10 steel. It could probably be just as effective with a thinner hall, and fewer shells. That might also save the hall structure itself. But the essence is for the hall to be long enough, that as many tribals/raiders as possible enter, before they trigger that last IED, setting off the chainreaction, that most of them don't have time to escape!

So, what do you guys have?

[TwixFunSize]

Gonna try that for sure!

[The-MathMog]

Gonna try that for sure!

Do so, and let me know how it works for you! I still need to do more testing.

The way you place the shells, are by placing IED shells, but only make the pawns haul the artillery shells there, then cancel the construction

This could also be used as a seperate system, that you can "activate" when needed, by putting doors in the ends, and keeping them open, for when you want the raiders to go through it.

I would mostly use this against tribals, and not pirate raiders or mechs for example. But it might work against those too!

[The-MathMog]

*UPDATE*

This setup actually works better. A 5 wide corridor, with 1 artillery shell every 2 squares. This example I used 12 shells. It completely obliterated the tribal raid, of god knows how many. Check the other images in the link to see what I mean!

And with this one, the walls aren't damaged either, making it a lot more profitable. The only downside is probably that the raiders' clothes and weapons gets damaged.



http://imgur.com/a/QyedI

[DFKabuto]

Would be more effective if you also put a bunch of rock chunks in there to slow them down as they approach the turret, allowing more to enter the room before the turret is eventually destroyed.

[b0rsuk]

Are you certain you need to place a shell every two squares to make them detonate ? I Think every third square would do.

I'm sure this design can be improved. Place a door at the start and at the end. If you can afford so many shells and components, surely you can afford extra 50 stone. The idea is to have them bunch up more so more of them fit in the blast. Then you might not need such long corridors.

And if you want to get a high score, place deadfall traps in their usual escape path. It doesn't matter they will discover it - once they panic they run into traps.

I don't think it's a problem their equipment will be damaged. Tribals mostly carry crap only fit for smelting. Sometimes a more expensive tribalwear and that's it. You can use incendiary IEDs - uranium spears don't burn.

[The-MathMog]

Would be more effective if you also put a bunch of rock chunks in there to slow them down as they approach the turret, allowing more to enter the room before the turret is eventually destroyed.

Indeed. I just tested that, and it works quite well. The only problem with that, is that because the shells need to be 2 squares from each other, they damage all the chunks 100, so they will only last 3 raids, which means they need replacing a lot. But because you can let that many raiders in, you also don't need to make the corridor that long

Another example is, if you find a marsh or a similar slow walking ground texture, you could integrate it on that.

Are you certain you need to place a shell every two squares to make them detonate ? I Think every third square would do.

I'm sure this design can be improved. Place a door at the start and at the end. If you can afford so many shells and components, surely you can afford extra 50 stone. The idea is to have them bunch up more so more of them fit in the blast. Then you might not need such long corridors.

And if you want to get a high score, place deadfall traps in their usual escape path. It doesn't matter they will discover it - once they panic they run into traps.

I don't think it's a problem their equipment will be damaged. Tribals mostly carry crap only fit for smelting. Sometimes a more expensive tribalwear and that's it. You can use incendiary IEDs - uranium spears don't burn.

Yes I am sure. Just tested it. The chainreaction doesn't go off, if you place them every 3 squares.

Hmm, you mean a door for them to break? Sure that could work.

Also, only the IED cost components, so you only need 1! The rest is just artillery shells which cost only 10 steel.

+1 one to that second to last phrase too!

And to the "damaged good" point, yeah you're right. That would only be more of an issue when it's pirate raids who attack. Which this seems to work on too.

Now to try it on mechs!

[The-MathMog]

You can probably get away with a chain of around 10-12 shells (that's without chunks), so 140-160 steel to obliterate a 50+ raid is not bad at all, considering it's quite normal to loose a turret or two, during a raid, which could cost you more than that.

[b0rsuk]

I need to play some games against tribals. I tend to make peace with them so I don't really know how late game feels against them. I capture prisoners, then release them, and pay for the final bit via comms console.

[The-MathMog]

Sometimes I actually find tribals more troublesome than pirate raiders in the late game, as tribals raid in larger numbers, and their weapons are split between melee/ranged almost 50/50, making them quite an effective force. And their greatbows are actually quite good. Deal a lot of damage and have decent accuracy.

[b0rsuk]

Of course they are troublesome, that's why I make peace with them. Pirates must bring good weapons and armour if they're to be dangerous. Many carry around 200 silver. Traps take out pirates more easily because there are fewer of them. Sieges are easy once you get a sniper rifle. The only thing tribals are vulnerable to is mortars when they prepare for attack, and that's expensive, out of question on a flat extreme desert.

That said, I think on extreme desert (the biome is often flat) it may be a good idea to base your economy on smelting tribal weapons. You get steel and stone from them, and on a flat map with 3 sculptors I'm already halfway done with the map's stone in 5501. The prospect of buying steel for the ship is also terrifying. The only remaining steel deposits are on the edges of the map. I built a bunch of hydroponics in the open (no sunlamp) and the plan is to sell beer, but I have mixed results so far.

But I was right to make peace with the tribals. I should have laid out my base differently and planned for farming tribals from the start.

[skullywag]

just put a few rows of sandbags to slow them up, costs a bit more obviously but the result is the same, or any cheap building thats "passable".

[Listy]

Its good to see you lot working out the whole Explosive Fun Box thing, but here let me speed things up a bit:



The room at the top is for my close combat guys to stand in, and then rush out and boop any fleeing raiders over the head.

The sandbags, at the top, are there to encourage people to clump up and use them as cover. Often when they're shooting at turrets they'll hit their own guys who are rushing forwards.

Each shell has a roof tile over it, to stop the shells degrading.

The Sandbags at the bottom are to slow attackers from fleeing from the blast.

The turrets are there for several reasons.
1: it can knock out weak threats, such as mad animals.
2: It takes time to knock out a turret and detonate it, meaning most if not all of the enemies will be inside the fun box.
3: At the very least it makes the enemy use up all their triple rockets.

Now the cunning bit: A turret has an explosive radius large enough to set off the IED traps. But the IED traps don't explode wide enough to hurt the turret. So to start the chain reaction you need to either kill the turret or stand on the IED. In the later case the turret will survive.

The second IED, near the exit is just a bit of extra Bang to make sure I get everyone in the area.

I've been using this since just after they introduced IED's, so a fair few Alphas. Generally I cause 100% Casualties. Occasionally you'll get one or two enemies outside who don't rush in.
I used to use 4 turrets and lines of shells, but with the introduction of Components I tried smaller versions, including a 1 turret version. the latter didn't work so well, and sufficient of the enemy normally made it through to my second line. I did try a shell in place of the IED but it caused far too much damage to my own structures.

Problems: If the enemy attack is split up for some reason, such as two speeds (like Mechanoid attacks) or because part of the attacking force goes to deal with something else (like a trade caravan) then you can be faced with a fight as by the time the second group arrives the first group has tripped the trap.
Its also very labour intensive, and has a lot of time for repairing and re-setting the trap, so much so you can get two waves before you've gotten it fully re-armed.
The other issue is you'll never see another recruit from it or decent gear, although you can pick that up off the fleeing enemies who get smacked in the tunnel.

Its really an "end game" system, but seeing as I play for maximum length, this isn't an issue.

[The-MathMog]

Its good to see you lot working out the whole Explosive Fun Box thing, but here let me speed things up a bit:

Thanks man, veeery good info!

I will try some of this out, but I will still mostly use it as a supplement though. I'll stick to renditions of my "1 line shells", as that actually makes some of the raiders survive. It doesn't kill all of them, but enough to make the rest of them flee.
In my current colony I have cougars too, which I use to hunt down fleeing raiders, so having a door to the outside of that minefield would be great too.

Keeping the damage to the buildings to a bare minimum is also quite important for me, so that I will have to test too, for what is optimal. Probably a few rock chunks.

[b0rsuk]

I just smelted a silver mace for 750 silver!! I didn't know smelting was so profitable, it used to yield crap amount of resources. Farming tribals IS a thing!