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Author Topic: [1.0] RedistHeat (Oct 29, v50) Ported to 1.0  (Read 231898 times)

lukiono

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2016, 09:59:23 AM »

Ouh.... I intended i'm on the latest version... Sorry for that and many thanks for your help =)
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2016, 12:26:49 AM »

I'm not sure I understand how duct work... works.

Heres a couple of pictures.

http://imgur.com/a/LFPqO

In that album you will see one room, my temperature management room is at 21C
I have a inlet in that room which is connected to the upper network. the upper network connects to 2 outlets in the two rooms on the left
You will see in the other picture that the reactor room is at 14c (this also goes for the comms room)

the duct network selected has a net temp of 15C, I'm not sure how the duct network is distributing the heat from one room to the next? Is it? did I misunderstand the concept here?

Also in the picture although not shown, is the industrial cooler with its heat output room. It leads to two inlets one on upper the other on lower, which lead outside. The idea I had here was that the inlets were going to draw heat out of the room and dump it outside. However that doesn't seem to be happening. The hot box can get /really/ hot. And the duct work seems to do nothing/ very little.

I just assume I am misunderstanding the use of ductwork here but the main post doesn't go into detail about how these systems work with each other.
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2016, 12:35:17 AM »

Oh yeah and the Industrial heater never seems to go into low power mode even if it has reached target temp
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2016, 02:32:24 AM »

both coolers and heaters don't seem to be efficiently using their low power state. They appear to be moving into high again the moment there is /any/ temp change, which causes a constantly flickering between power states. Which makes me think redistHeats coolers and heaters aren't continuing to heat/cool while in low power state.

The reason it works in vanilla is that they continue to maintain the temp of the room while in low power.
Its only once there is a big enough jump in temperature that they move back into high to compensate. And once again even then they will move back into low once the equilibrium has been reached.
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Cabraca

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2016, 04:18:19 AM »

why you had Industial Cooler and Heater in 1 room ? thats useless i think xD you cooldown your heat room :D
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Anbalsilfer

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2016, 07:02:26 PM »

Is this mod being actively developed by the current maintainers?

I was wondering one thing about the so-called "Smart duct outlet"...

Is there any particular reason why this needs to be connected to either one or the other network channel? It seems like a weird design decision. If it were simultaneously connected to both a hot and a cold air network, it could mix the air from the channels as needed to reach any temperature between them. The way it's designed right now you need two of these for each isolated space to maintain a steady temperature, regardless of temperature outside. A simple water faucet in most people's homes are able to mix water to any temperature. Don't real HVAC systems really work in the same way?
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2016, 10:56:51 PM »

why you had Industial Cooler and Heater in 1 room ? thats useless i think xD you cooldown your heat room :D

Its not an issue :P think about it this way. Its winter, its 14C in the room. set the heater to 21C set the cooler to 31C, the cooler won't cool and the heater will heat.

It would however be much more helpful if the mod author allow you to flick the machines on and off like they are in vanilla.
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Morgloz

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2016, 12:08:33 PM »

why you had Industial Cooler and Heater in 1 room ? thats useless i think xD you cooldown your heat room :D

Its not an issue :P think about it this way. Its winter, its 14C in the room. set the heater to 21C set the cooler to 31C, the cooler won't cool and the heater will heat.

It would however be much more helpful if the mod author allow you to flick the machines on and off like they are in vanilla.

I changed them to be flickable already, I was waiting to see if I was able to fix the placeholder before publishing another update, but I will upload the changes now.

The ducts try to equalize the temperature between the network and the room they are placed in. Also they have a max rate at which they can work, if the room is big enough you may need more inlets/outlets to achieve the desired temperature.

And I'll take a look at the low/high not working/working thing, but I already plan to use hysteresis to control when to kick on/off.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 12:11:10 PM by Morgloz »
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My mods:
RedistHeat

Morgloz

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2016, 12:23:21 PM »

Is this mod being actively developed by the current maintainers?

I was wondering one thing about the so-called "Smart duct outlet"...

Is there any particular reason why this needs to be connected to either one or the other network channel? It seems like a weird design decision. If it were simultaneously connected to both a hot and a cold air network, it could mix the air from the channels as needed to reach any temperature between them. The way it's designed right now you need two of these for each isolated space to maintain a steady temperature, regardless of temperature outside. A simple water faucet in most people's homes are able to mix water to any temperature. Don't real HVAC systems really work in the same way?
Wow, I go missing for two days and there are already people thinking I'm dead?

Actually the smart outlet will push air at the temperature of the network to heat/cool the room and then heat up the nework if the room is warmer than it or cool it down if is colder.
If you keep your network at 21C the smart outlet should be able to maintain that temperature if the room is not too big, but you could achieve that with a normal outlet too.

The smart outlet is used for networks with extreme temperatures, which are used to heat/cool multiple rooms with one network.

However I like the idea of the smart outlet been able to connect to both upper and lower pipes, so I'll see if I can implement that.
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Utildayael

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2016, 05:53:30 PM »

Some questions I had as I try to sort this out in my head after messing around with the mod in dev mode...

1. Duct temperature is the absolute lowest [or highest] temp you can get a room? For example if a duct temp is 50F then you can possibly get a room down to 50F assuming the duct has enough cooling behind it to handle the temperature? I'm assuming you use the volume of a room meaning  a 3x3 hooked to a 50F line with a smart duct will most likely be 50F whereas a 20x20 room hooked to a 50F line may NOT actually hit 50F if there's not enough coolers feeding the duct network?

2. How do I handle hot and cold on same network or is that not possible? Say I want "70F all year round"... its 100F in summer so I need cooling but its 30F in winter so I need heat. Do I need to run like.. upper duct for cooling and lower duct for heat hooked to appropriate cool/heat units? Seems cooling/furnace fight eachother if both on same line. Assuming this to be true, I'd need two smart vents per room? [one upper, one lower]

3. How big can duct networks be? If I have a giant base can I use one network assuming I put enough coolers / furnaces on it?

4. On industrial coolers what is the proper way to use the exhaust ports? They connect fine but should they open to the outside or a duct leading to a vent outside or some other configuration for optimum use? I put my cooler units outside to deal with the heat they generate but that seems less than ideal. Can I run ducts from the exhaust ports to the outside and put outlets on them or is there some other better way?

5. Duct coolers are just small cooling units correct? Any special placement for optimum usage?

Sorry for all the questions but figure some of those answers can fit into the general usage as well so people like me will stop asking you. Maybe. :)

Screenshots of some common sample setups might help alleviate a bunch of questions too.

Once I get it figured out I can write up a little guide on Steam to reference people to if you like and include screenshots.

Cheers!
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Programmdude

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2016, 09:14:42 PM »

I've been trying arctic worlds lately, and I tried this mod. Previously I was using a large hallway filled with heaters and vents to all the rooms. I had a double layer outside wall to add some insulation. This worked even in -80 temperatures.

However once I started using the pipe system, I found it very difficult to get all the rooms above freezing. It was technically working, since getting it to 0 was enough of an achievement. I tried more intake pumps, all in a room full of large heaters. The heater room was the right temperature, yet the temperature in the pipes never got above 4-5.

Essentially, while this mod is a good idea, currently the pipe system isn't viable as a base heating mechanism in arctic conditions.
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Degraine

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2016, 11:02:34 PM »

I was going to say I had the same problem, but I just discovered that the duct cooler does in fact cool the air in the pipe system (I'd tried it on a previous save with the intake connected to the outdoors and it didn't work for some reason). Overall the system is rather confusing and counterintuitive. Duct coolers ought to be able to act as an intake, by rights.

I sympathise with your woes about efficiency. It really doesn't seem to work as it should. Perhaps multiple heaters in separate rooms would be more effective?

Edit: Also, output rooms are significantly colder than the source room (4x4 with an industrial cooler). The latter is 21C, while my bedrooms are 17C...in summer with an outdoor temperature of 29. I'm not understanding the physics of this situation.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 11:10:25 PM by Degraine »
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2016, 03:21:26 AM »

why you had Industial Cooler and Heater in 1 room ? thats useless i think xD you cooldown your heat room :D

Its not an issue :P think about it this way. Its winter, its 14C in the room. set the heater to 21C set the cooler to 31C, the cooler won't cool and the heater will heat.

It would however be much more helpful if the mod author allow you to flick the machines on and off like they are in vanilla.

I changed them to be flickable already, I was waiting to see if I was able to fix the placeholder before publishing another update, but I will upload the changes now.

The ducts try to equalize the temperature between the network and the room they are placed in. Also they have a max rate at which they can work, if the room is big enough you may need more inlets/outlets to achieve the desired temperature.

And I'll take a look at the low/high not working/working thing, but I already plan to use hysteresis to control when to kick on/off.

While it might be true that a larger room might take a longer amount of time consider the pictures I provided. Three rooms, all three are not particularly large. And yes the duct network never really heats up. My heater was set to 21 as it shows in the picture. But the reactor room and the comms room were at 14 for the entire length of autumn and winter.

If this is the case there needs to be some serious re balancing of the ducts work rate, because if attached vanilla vents do a better job of distributing heat throughout the base. Then why would I use ducts? at all?

You also see that in the pictures. And as I explained in that post. That I have two inlets trying to suck the hot air out of the coolers hot box room. Yet it barely makes any change what so ever despite being fed outside.

You may intend the duct network to try and equalize all it parts. But /something/ isn't working/balanced right.

Which is such a shame because I really want this mod to be something special that I wouldn't dare think of ever playing Rimworld without.
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Morgloz

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 21, v43d) Added to Steam Workshop
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2016, 06:32:12 AM »

why you had Industial Cooler and Heater in 1 room ? thats useless i think xD you cooldown your heat room :D

Its not an issue :P think about it this way. Its winter, its 14C in the room. set the heater to 21C set the cooler to 31C, the cooler won't cool and the heater will heat.

It would however be much more helpful if the mod author allow you to flick the machines on and off like they are in vanilla.

I changed them to be flickable already, I was waiting to see if I was able to fix the placeholder before publishing another update, but I will upload the changes now.

The ducts try to equalize the temperature between the network and the room they are placed in. Also they have a max rate at which they can work, if the room is big enough you may need more inlets/outlets to achieve the desired temperature.

And I'll take a look at the low/high not working/working thing, but I already plan to use hysteresis to control when to kick on/off.

While it might be true that a larger room might take a longer amount of time consider the pictures I provided. Three rooms, all three are not particularly large. And yes the duct network never really heats up. My heater was set to 21 as it shows in the picture. But the reactor room and the comms room were at 14 for the entire length of autumn and winter.

If this is the case there needs to be some serious re balancing of the ducts work rate, because if attached vanilla vents do a better job of distributing heat throughout the base. Then why would I use ducts? at all?

You also see that in the pictures. And as I explained in that post. That I have two inlets trying to suck the hot air out of the coolers hot box room. Yet it barely makes any change what so ever despite being fed outside.

You may intend the duct network to try and equalize all it parts. But /something/ isn't working/balanced right.

Which is such a shame because I really want this mod to be something special that I wouldn't dare think of ever playing Rimworld without.
They probably need balancing.
Would you be so kind to attatch a savefile so I can test them better?
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Rorax

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Re: [A14] RedistHeat (Jul 26, v43e) Fixed small cooler
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2016, 07:42:05 AM »

My Pleasure :)

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