[A14] ADogSaid - EPOE workbenches

[kaptain_kavern]

Again i'm not a natural english speaker, and to me even after re-reading, i sense more hostility towards my comments than the other way around.

I think i've never been misunderstood that much in here. Just make me think more that yes it is childish. Not just to want to be credited but even the way all of this as turned (made me think about how it end up with Ninefingers).

In the end i really don't care because as i said it's nothing ego-related (we all working on someone else game/code, how can i possibly view it as my code or work + all my mods are open-sourced). I only had users in mind like i said.

How is the workshop update system relevant to the ongoing discussion that manifested in this thread? I don't think it is.

In a discussion about mods, update and potential compatibility issue i can see it related and it something that we have all discussed the last few weeks. Here is some links about that subject

But then, you say that some people have worked together for quite some time and have formed their own written/unwritten rules and expectations. As if those would automatically apply to anyone else. I find that to be nonsense. You cannot expect others to live by unwritten rules that you made

First i made no rules. It's just that i struggle to find the right words/construction. I was speaking about communication that's all, and yes you have already applied to an unwritten rules just by coming post the mod in here for example. I was just trying to focus your attention on the fact that we will release a crafting update. Nothings else, certainly not ego or hostility. I swear

Anyway at first i was coming here to say that we should all try to work in good intelligence and a good ambiance is always appreciate ^^ I was heading to this post to ask you if you want to contribute/participate (or if we contribute/participate with you ).

We are principally working with the Github system, and i invite you (or anyone) to came by, if you want to. At least to see where we're heading (for thinking the compatibility during changes in the code) but also to participate to the code or ongoing discussions.

On a technical note you should be aware / take note of the changes that we are going to implement (for compatibilities sake) for next released, that way you can prepare updates ahead. So please have a look at this discussion as it will certainly changed things, codewise.

Best Regards

[JesusKreist]

You don't?
Okay, time for a small lesson then.

Dude,we are working on a release to make the item to be craft able. But not on EPOE  workbenches ...

You know you could have asked or something ...

Unfinished sentences with dots imply there is text which is not written but thought.
Depending on the tone of the rest of the text this part can be hillarious, positive or like in this case negative to borderline hostile. The first pieces of text which directly come to mind are "moron", "idiot", "dumbass" and the like.
You may or (more likely) may not have intended such thoughts but they are there nonetheless.

French in school is "some time past" now but this behaviour is similar if not exactly the same in all modern languages.

[kaptain_kavern]

Again (and after that i stop polluting this thread with non mods related subjects) i'm not as fluent as you in English, i learned by myself (but i understand enough how you just called me, please note that i've insulted nobody).

By that i mean i'm not mastering tones or things that may seems implicit for you.My attention was never to be harsh or insulting (hang in there with us for a moment before judge and insult and when we'll getting each other better, i'm sure we all be friend)

[syntax1993]

I wouldn't mind working together on some kind of solution. It's always nicer to have all the features you'd like in one mod without needing multiple mods from multiple authors.

Now let's all stop this before this gets locked down (if I don't do it myself). We all make mistakes, I'm not here to shit over people, most likely none of us are.

[LU3dDEL]

I've got a suggestion.

What if syntax joins the team and makes "A Dog Said - EPOE Version"?
This is the version that uses the EPOE Workbenches (not the vanilla ones) and maybe adds things like "Advanced Bionic Animal legs" and "surrogate animal hearts" and stuff.

The team that works on "A Dog Said" right now continues what they are doing and help him when they're done perfecting the Vanilla version.

EPOE And ADS are great mods but combined they would be amazing.
(I want the best Human eating Wargs possible)

[Nattiejim]

Spoonshortage explained it nicely - we only wish you'd asked us first.

That's fantastic. So you expect everyone to continually halt creativity by asking some sort of arbitrary permission from other modders who are no authority? (I don't mean to sound harsh, I can't think of another way to write it.) And if it's not that, then who cares that in the worst case scenario, multiple people are working on the same goals and ideas?

In my opinion, asking first is only a preference - not an absolute requirement. Sorry if that was unclear in my first message. So no, we do not expect everyone to "continually halt creativity".

[Master Bucketsmith]

Just so we can close off this discussion (not topic), I want to take the time to respond with my closing thoughts.
Scroll to the bottom for the on-topic stuff.

Again i'm not a natural english speaker, and to me even after re-reading, i sense more hostility towards my comments than the other way around.
I think i've never been misunderstood that much in here. Just make me think more that yes it is childish. Not just to want to be credited but even the way all of this as turned (made me think about how it end up with Ninefingers).

That's not hostility, it is the same feeling that makes you think our replies might be hostile. Uncertainty, apprehension.
Ironically it is your first reply that triggered it all. JesusKrist did a good job of explaining why it was misinterpreted so easily.

Language might not directly have something to do with it, but cultural background does and you can't quite translate that.
I don't know if it's legit, but a Turkish guy I used to know once explained to me that using phrases like "hey could you do X for me, please" is reserved for speaking to formal authorities and it is considered rude in his (sub)culture to use that willy nilly. He kept sounding really blunt, to me, in return. "Do that." "Do this." Being direct is great, but being blunt is not. So even though the translation went okay, the culture behind it wasn't translated properly, so it created friction without being clear where it was coming from. Until it was unearthed, like is happening in this thread.
The topics of communication and feedback are a relatively new topic to hit mainstream, so that's probably why you might have the feeling that this is the first time something became so 'big'. Most of the time people will make assumptions and stay quiet, but that will only lead to a big explosion later.

In a discussion about mods, update and potential compatibility issue i can see it related and it something that we have all discussed the last few weeks. Here is some links about that subject

No man, the topic was about this specific mod and the chaotic communication that ensued. The more general topic of Steam Workshop support and limitations wasn't part of the former topic. That is my point.

First i made no rules. It's just that i struggle to find the right words/construction. I was speaking about communication that's all, and yes you have already applied to an unwritten rules just by coming post the mod in here for example. I was just trying to focus your attention on the fact that we will release a crafting update. Nothings else, certainly not ego or hostility. I swear

Everyone makes and follows rules. They grow organically over time. The way you address each other, the way work gets divided, there's nothing wrong with that. All I was pointing out is that it was unfair to expect people to 'play by those rules' if they were never told the rules. (Because they're unwritten and grew over time, so most likely never given that much attention because everyone IN the team grew along with them.)

Anyway at first i was coming here to say that we should all try to work in good intelligence and a good ambiance is always appreciate ^^ I was heading to this post to ask you if you want to contribute/participate (or if we contribute/participate with you ).

I appreciate that, but I'm not much of a coder myself. People say I've got great potential, but the last time I tried modding RimWorld I got caught in trying to figure out how exactly the code for RimWorld works. (I don't have a lot of training in coding and most of it was in effin' Java, years ago.)

In my opinion, asking first is only a preference - not an absolute requirement. Sorry if that was unclear in my first message. So no, we do not expect everyone to "continually halt creativity".

Well that's great. I'm happy that you cleared that up, thank you.
That goes for kaptain_kavern as well, thank you.

On-topic:
So, I understood you're making the animal prosthetics craftable on vanilla workbenches. I really enjoy using EPOE, and seeing how vanilla does not have proper medical-ish workbenches, I'd greatly prefer it if those prosthetics were made on the same workbenches as EPOE.
Which brings me to a question I had; I think ADS could work wonderfully in the theme of EPOE. Would you guys be opposed if a version was made that followed the tiers and prices of EPOE, utilizing their workbenches? Kind of like an extension to EPOE, for animal bionics. Right now the parts resemble the advanced bionics from EPOE in statistics. I'm not sure on the power balance of that and how useful animals are in general, but I was thinking that maybe it would be nice to have a tiered set going on just like the human prosthetics/bionics in EPOE.

Ha, now I see 'EPOE' everywhere.

[witchyspoon]

-snip-

On-topic:
So, I understood you're making the animal prosthetics craftable on vanilla workbenches. I really enjoy using EPOE, and seeing how vanilla does not have proper medical-ish workbenches, I'd greatly prefer it if those prosthetics were made on the same workbenches as EPOE.
Which brings me to a question I had; I think ADS could work wonderfully in the theme of EPOE. Would you guys be opposed if a version was made that followed the tiers and prices of EPOE, utilizing their workbenches? Kind of like an extension to EPOE, for animal bionics. Right now the parts resemble the advanced bionics from EPOE in statistics. I'm not sure on the power balance of that and how useful animals are in general, but I was thinking that maybe it would be nice to have a tiered set going on just like the human prosthetics/bionics in EPOE.

Ha, now I see 'EPOE' everywhere.

We actually planned on making an EPOE compatible version, that basically works like this mod here, it makes our parts craftable on EPOE. That's why I was thanking Syntax1993 in my post bc he saved us a lot of work And for people who don't use it, there would be our vanilla way of crafting. Now regarding the tiers, it was quite intentional that we only had two different versions, simple and bionic. We feel that animals don't play THAT much of a big role to people so we kept it as simple and small (in quantity of parts) as possible. Simple, cheap parts for those who merely want to keep their pets alive, for moral reasons  .. and those better bionic parts for the "wooot cuberdawgs!!!" people haha 
BUT people complained even then about the quantity..thus our LITE version was born only the limbs. So yeah full integration with EPOE on a smaller, cheaper scale is great - but even more parts, I don't think that's a great idea. We already picked the most useful parts for animals that make sense, the rest would just be silly regarding the usefulnes of animals.

[Master Bucketsmith]

We actually planned on making an EPOE compatible version, that basically works like this mod here, it makes our parts craftable on EPOE. That's why I was thanking Syntax1993 in my post bc he saved us a lot of work And for people who don't use it, there would be our vanilla way of crafting. Now regarding the tiers, it was quite intentional that we only had two different versions, simple and bionic. We feel that animals don't play THAT much of a big role to people so we kept it as simple and small (in quantity of parts) as possible. Simple, cheap parts for those who merely want to keep their pets alive, for moral reasons  .. and those better bionic parts for the "wooot cuberdawgs!!!" people haha 
BUT people complained even then about the quantity..thus our LITE version was born only the limbs. So yeah full integration with EPOE on a smaller, cheaper scale is great - but even more parts, I don't think that's a great idea. We already picked the most useful parts for animals that make sense, the rest would just be silly regarding the usefulnes of animals.

Aye but stats wise the bionics resemble the advanced bionics from EPOE, so it kind of skips a tier compared to EPOE.
It raises the question of "what should it cost" if a version was built that matches EPOE, beyond using its workbenches.

[witchyspoon]

We actually planned on making an EPOE compatible version, that basically works like this mod here, it makes our parts craftable on EPOE. That's why I was thanking Syntax1993 in my post bc he saved us a lot of work And for people who don't use it, there would be our vanilla way of crafting. Now regarding the tiers, it was quite intentional that we only had two different versions, simple and bionic. We feel that animals don't play THAT much of a big role to people so we kept it as simple and small (in quantity of parts) as possible. Simple, cheap parts for those who merely want to keep their pets alive, for moral reasons  .. and those better bionic parts for the "wooot cuberdawgs!!!" people haha 
BUT people complained even then about the quantity..thus our LITE version was born only the limbs. So yeah full integration with EPOE on a smaller, cheaper scale is great - but even more parts, I don't think that's a great idea. We already picked the most useful parts for animals that make sense, the rest would just be silly regarding the usefulnes of animals.

Aye but stats wise the bionics resemble the advanced bionics from EPOE, so it kind of skips a tier compared to EPOE.
It raises the question of "what should it cost" if a version was built that matches EPOE, beyond using its workbenches.

yes, like I said, I know it skips a tier, that's what I intended I thought the bionic animal parts would be around normal human prosthetics, cost-wise. Its a balancing-act between usefulness for/of animals, and what people are still willing to "pay" so to speak for animal parts, whether they will still bother if its as expensive as advanced bionics is what I mean. Also I don't want it to be too expensive, because animals die so easily. But on the other hand if the bionics are not useful enough, people won't even bother with it. I hope you get what I mean

[syntax1993]

We actually planned on making an EPOE compatible version, that basically works like this mod here, it makes our parts craftable on EPOE. That's why I was thanking Syntax1993 in my post bc he saved us a lot of work And for people who don't use it, there would be our vanilla way of crafting. Now regarding the tiers, it was quite intentional that we only had two different versions, simple and bionic. We feel that animals don't play THAT much of a big role to people so we kept it as simple and small (in quantity of parts) as possible. Simple, cheap parts for those who merely want to keep their pets alive, for moral reasons  .. and those better bionic parts for the "wooot cuberdawgs!!!" people haha 
BUT people complained even then about the quantity..thus our LITE version was born only the limbs. So yeah full integration with EPOE on a smaller, cheaper scale is great - but even more parts, I don't think that's a great idea. We already picked the most useful parts for animals that make sense, the rest would just be silly regarding the usefulnes of animals.

Aye but stats wise the bionics resemble the advanced bionics from EPOE, so it kind of skips a tier compared to EPOE.
It raises the question of "what should it cost" if a version was built that matches EPOE, beyond using its workbenches.

yes, like I said, I know it skips a tier, that's what I intended I thought the bionic animal parts would be around normal human prosthetics, cost-wise. Its a balancing-act between usefulness for/of animals, and what people are still willing to "pay" so to speak for animal parts, whether they will still bother if its as expensive as advanced bionics is what I mean. Also I don't want it to be too expensive, because animals die so easily. But on the other hand if the bionics are not useful enough, people won't even bother with it. I hope you get what I mean

Yup that's what me and Bucketsmith discussed already. Animals are less useful thus the prosthetics should be cheaper. That's why right now, you pay the same amount for animal bionics (advanced-tier stats) as you would for human bionics (regular bionics stats). If I get enough feedback from players who woud like to change it, I might consider it.
To me it made a lot of sense to have the prices of the highest tier for animals equal to the prices of the middle tier for humans.

[witchyspoon]

-snip-
Yup that's what me and Bucketsmith discussed already. Animals are less useful thus the prosthetics should be cheaper. That's why right now, you pay the same amount for animal bionics (advanced-tier stats) as you would for human bionics (regular bionics stats). If I get enough feedback from players who woud like to change it, I might consider it.
To me it made a lot of sense to have the prices of the highest tier for animals equal to the prices of the middle tier for humans.

we will release our vanilla crafting soon and you can see there how we "priced" our parts.. for simple parts we use steel and wood and for bionic parts we use steel and plasteel, brainchip also uses silver and the organs devilstrand since we didn't want to use the uncraftable hyperweave or expensive components.

[kaptain_kavern]

Hello Syntax1993,
we just released the release of ADogSaid that we spoke earlier.
I link you all the changes (on github there) hoping it may/can help. Also don't hesitate to PM me or @Spoonshortage if anything.

[Lady Wolf]

In the A13 version of this we also were able to craft synthetic kidneys and liver (plus other synthetic organs) for our animals, is that coming in a later version?

[AlphaMason]

Where can i find the alpha 15 version of this add-on?