Dynamic soil Fertility

[erdrik]

Crops deplete the nutrients in soil after a harvest.
Then the nutrients regrow over a long course of time.
(it should be quite a bit longer than it takes to deplete)

I feel like the abundance of flat land in plains and forests would allow open bases to cycle farm plots and make best use of soil. While the limited space of mountainous regions would limit this, sometimes leading to all available soil being infertile.

[Lightzy]

+1

Also, perhaps you could use domesticated animals/garbage to fertilize soil, giving it bonuses to growth

[Pax_Empyrean]

I don't particularly like this idea. It adds micromanagement to something that I'd rather not have to pay attention to. I think you're on the right track with forcing people to take up farming outside to get them out of their dwarf holes, though. What I would suggest is for planting crops in one tile to take less time than it currently does, and for crops to offer lower yields per tile. While the overall time spent farming to feed your colonists wouldn't change, the amount of land you'd need to dedicate to farming to match the same level of output would increase. Bigger farms are harder to box in and hide behind chokepoints, so enemy raid sizes could be scaled down with the expectation that you'd probably have to sortie out to meet them instead of just hiding in one impenetrably fortified position.

[b0rsuk]

On a second thought it's not a bad idea, but it needs to be fleshed out and better defined.

1. How to show that soil has been exhausted ? Coming up with a new sprite/texture for each type of soil and making it stand out can be challenging. I would prefer something like with power lines, where depleted soil is highlighted when you're in growing zone placing mode, or when you select a growing zone.

2. Which plants should deplete soil ? Probably not grass, or the map would become infertile for no good reason. What about devilstrand, it takes 20 days to grow, it would probably need to be rebalanced or it would suffer a noticeable drop in growth speed.

3. When can soil recuperate ? What if player decides to build a few rooms on top of depleted soil, then deconstruct them one year later ?

Let's talk about the impact. I think greenhouses (sunlamp + soil) would be hit the hardest. Is that okay ?  Fertile soil would also become less valuable because you could only use it for a while.

[CannibarRechter]

All of these changes would still involve holding up in the "castle," it's just that the crops would move outside of it. Either that, or people would gravitate more to hydroponics.

[b0rsuk]

All of these changes would still involve holding up in the "castle," it's just that the crops would move outside of it. Either that, or people would gravitate more to hydroponics.

It's much harder to wall off a big field, it's vulnerable to incendiary mortars. Hydroponics have many limitations.

[ToXeye]

Showing nutrients like you show beauty.

[erdrik]

All of these changes would still involve holding up in the "castle," it's just that the crops would move outside of it. Either that, or people would gravitate more to hydroponics.

It's much harder to wall off a big field, it's vulnerable to incendiary mortars. Hydroponics have many limitations.

^ This.
There is also the matter of travel time to/in the field.
Especially for mountain bases, if you can only use your closest fields once per cycle, then during its down time your growers would have to travel farther to get to and back from the fields which has a significant impact on your grower's productivity. (to say nothing on getting back to base to enjoy down time or proper meals/gather locations)


Also, I like ToXeye's idea for display.

[Wex]

3. When can soil recuperate ? What if player decides to build a few rooms on top of depleted soil, then deconstruct them one year later ?

Crop rotation. Just like IRL. So greenhouses won't be hit that hard. But it's still a factor to consider (strawberries are far less producing than corn, for instance).

[b0rsuk]

What if you plant corn, beans and pumpkins on the same patch ? Corn supports bean, which climbs around it. Bean, like all leguminous plants, keeps nitrogen in the ground, helping corn and pumpkin. Finally pumpkin, which covers the ground with its large leaves, stops water evaporation in the time of summer droughts. All without plough and animal fertilizers.

[Wex]

The beans will then proceed to topple corn, for sunlight, while the pumpkin's vines would uproot them both, for nutrients.
We don't see them, because they move slowly, but plants wage wars one another; you can't have them all in the samne spot, at the same time (also, corn grows in the summer, beans and pumpkins in fall)

[Boston]

The beans will then proceed to topple corn, for sunlight, while the pumpkin's vines would uproot them both, for nutrients.
We don't see them, because they move slowly, but plants wage wars one another; you can't have them all in the samne spot, at the same time (also, corn grows in the summer, beans and pumpkins in fall)

What? Seriously, do some research into the matter.

Growing corn, pumpkins and beans in conjunction with each other is a famous Native American method of agriculture known as "The Three Sisters". It is very effective, with regards to the amount of food that can be grown vs the space used, arguably the most effective method of organic / non-mechanized form of agriculture known. No need for fertilizer, pesticides, or machines to till the soil. Just a hoe and some elbow grease.

Plus, the three crops provide a balanced diet, with all the necessary vitamins, minerals and amino acids.  Add some potatoes as a starch, which many Native Americans did, and you can grow a lot of food very simply.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Sisters_(agriculture)
http://www.reneesgarden.com/articles/3sisters.html

Using the mod "Vegetable Garden", I use this method  of agriculture in my games all the time. One 3x3 plot of corn, beans and pumpkins, and 3 x 5 plot of potatoes, with some healroot and snow beets added in 1 x 3 plots. I grow enough food from those systems to feed 5 pawns, with plenty to spare. Hunting and foraging meets other needs, like meat and berries for pemmican.

[RawCode]

concept is fun, but in reality, everything will be about "kay i will make LARGE field".
oh, my fields provide less food, kay, i will make ever larger field.

if you want different mechanics, result should be binary, grow at full speed or not grow at all, everything else will result in larger fields.

[Lightzy]

That's not always the case,

1) In most climates, this change will only allow you to grow one round of healroot, for example. If you invest in soil fertility you could grow 2 harvests.

2) Obviously if this is added then all growing cycles can be lengthened accordingly to make this more useful. To the point where, say, soil erodes by 30% every cycle.

3) Large fields require long traverse times over large areas of fertile soil, which can become impractical/dangerous. Lone farmers caught outside by a suddenly maddened bear... etc.

4) fertilizer applies of course to hydroponics as well

5) this mechanic can help colonies without a good grower. They can compensate by spending more time over-fertilizing or something. Needs to be thought out I guess.

6) Hell, if it works in dwarf fortress...

[Wex]

Wow. I didn't know this!
Thanks!