[A16] Psychology (2017-5-14)

[erdelf]

was there any real reason to do your own subclass of pawn just for three comps ?
Makes a few mods completely incompatible.

[Icefrenzy]

Anyone have the older version? I want to finish my game there before I go try this alone since it kinda broke my save :C

[System.Linq]

Anyone else getting the bug where pawns start with blank traits in the Psyche tab? I'm sure it's a mod conflict, but I have no idea where to start.

I was going to ask about this myself; I'm having the same problem. The one colonist I had on my test map before the update is actually lacking the psyche tab completely. I'm thinking potential conflicts from Puffin's mods (though I tried turning both off, perhaps it still affects maps made before the update) or Combat Realism, but as no errors seem to be presenting themselves I cannot make a fully reasonable guess.

Can confirm. Sadly Puffin's mods are not compatible. Not really surprising though. I'm currently testing Rim Disorders.

Anyone know if this conflicts with the new Leadership mod? (Sorry, don't know the author offhand.)

Good to see we can turn elections off, though.

Good info.

I'm also testing the More Mental Breaks mod and will report back.

You guys would really benefit from reading the Compatibility section. Especially on More Mental Breaks, as this mod contains every mental break in that mod so you gain absolutely nothing. I added them on request when the mod took a while to be updated to A16.

Also, as stated in the settings, turning off elections does not increase compatibility whatsoever. You gain nothing by doing so. The option is only there for people who, for whatever reason, don't want them, which is very sad because I spent a long, long time making them work and I think they're very cool.

Also, somewhat unrelated, but I would also ask for Prepare Carefully support, as one has done before me. I use it to create personalized starts to stories, and being able to customize pawn personality from the base level would be great. Regardless, this update seems like it adds a lot of depth as-is - I do not mean to sound impatient or ungrateful.

As I said to them -- I don't use Prepare Carefully, nor do I understand how it works on a code level. It would take a lot of time and effort to create a patch for it. I do plan to do so eventually, but adding and fixing features is far more important to me since you can still edit these things in the save file.

With the overhaul of the social system the beauty and ugly traits don't have a discernible impact on relationships.

In fact they do. Beautiful pawns are much more Cool, and Ugly pawns much less Cool, and this affects how much relationship with other pawns they gain from conversations. Also, beauty is taken into account in romance factor, so beautiful pawns are considered significantly more attractive and more likely to romance and ugly pawns significantly less. I simply disabled the arbitrary opinion penalty because it wasn't necessary anymore.

One little thing I noticed - I can't seem to order colonists to arrest broken guy on a sadism mental break. Colonists aren't attacking him automatically, since he is not berserk, but you can't give the order either to arrest or to melee attack him. You can only click on a weapon icon and then on him, to make your guys try to bring him down. So if your guys are unarmed, you can't do jack to a sadist while he is pounding on one of your dogs. When he just wanders in search of an animal to beat - you can, but when he finds it and goes to it - you can't (actually you can't at any time beside some strange very brief moments when the option appears). Is that intended? That mechanic much to my annoyance reminds me of a social fight, where you can't do anything about two fools beating each other up. Theres just no option of arrest or anything else...

And one more thing - a guy on a histrionic break kept sticking on one girl like half a day and did succeed actually to the point she even accepted his proposal, but kept "making advances on her" even after that. And she actually kept refusing stacking huge two day long debuff! What the? Is it supposed to roll out this way? I mean she's his fiancee, shouldn't she accept his persistant advances then?

It's a mental break, he isn't supposed to be behaving rationally. And no, she doesn't have to accept his advances if she doesn't want to.

As for sadism, it's classified as an Aggro mental break so I'm unsure why you wouldn't be able to arrest them. I'll have to look into it further.

Anyone have the older version? I want to finish my game there before I go try this alone since it kinda broke my save :C

Attached to this post.

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

[Madman666]

Good, I checked in dev mode without any mods, beside Psychology, sadism is the only break that for whatever reason does not allow you to try and arrest the crazed person. Also would be nice to give us ability to order straigth up melee attack on extremely mentally broken guys (mainly sadists and people throwing a tantrum, they attack colony's property, so they are enemy and must be broken physically) the way you can berserked ones. It will come in handy if you know, that you don't have a socially effective pawn for peaceful arrest.

As for histrionic deal, well ok, she can say no 10 times to him after she's already accepted his proposal, I guess I'll just have to take the minigun and make her accept it. Or make him stop. Probably permanently, whatever)

[System.Linq]

You can order an attack on mental break pawns. Recruit a colonist, press B, and select the mental breakee. Tantruming pawns are marked guilty.

[Scottnov]

You guys would really benefit from reading the Compatibility section. Especially on More Mental Breaks, as this mod contains every mental break in that mod so you gain absolutely nothing. I added them on request when the mod took a while to be updated to A16.

Also, as stated in the settings, turning off elections does not increase compatibility whatsoever. You gain nothing by doing so. The option is only there for people who, for whatever reason, don't want them, which is very sad because I spent a long, long time making them work and I think they're very cool.

Well yes, of course I read the compatibility section. It's just that I haven't been saying "this mod is now incompatible with Puffin's mod, fix it for me" (or haven't intended to sound that way, at least) - Instead, I'm only reporting an issue which is affecting me and at least one other person right now in a major way; that being that old saves which used both your mod and Puffin's mods do not seem to function properly alongside the new update regardless of what's actually activated with Psychology's newest version loaded beforehand. Old pawns are not gaining a psyche tab in old saves on old pawns, though I have gotten all of my mods, including Psychology, to function in new saves on new pawns, but only on new saves.

You've provided the older version and I thank you for that, so I will probably just end up using that at least until I finish my current game. Yet I was looking forward to using the new features in Psychology's most recent update in my existing save; thus, I seek an answer here, if at all possible. I apologize if I seemed ungrateful or ignorant somehow, and thank you for your time.

[Madman666]

You can order an attack on mental break pawns. Recruit a colonist, press B, and select the mental breakee. Tantruming pawns are marked guilty.

If a colonist doesn't have a weapon, drafting him and pressing B doesn't do anything for me. Right click gives me ability to try an arrest, but I think option to melee attack should be there too. Unless something is wrong with my game. The only way I can attack and not arrest the guy - is having a weapon. And if its ranged - I can't order him to attack without using it. Which potentially leads to a lot of untidy holes in breakee's body, infections and gruesome death.

[System.Linq]

Well yes, of course I read the compatibility section. It's just that I haven't been saying "this mod is now incompatible with Puffin's mod, fix it for me" (or haven't intended to sound that way, at least) - Instead, I'm only reporting an issue which is affecting me and at least one other person right now in a major way; that being that old saves which used both your mod and Puffin's mods do not seem to function properly alongside the new update regardless of what's actually activated with Psychology's newest version loaded beforehand. Old pawns are not gaining a psyche tab in old saves on old pawns, though I have gotten all of my mods, including Psychology, to function in new saves on new pawns, but only on new saves.

You've provided the older version and I thank you for that, so I will probably just end up using that at least until I finish my current game. Yet I was looking forward to using the new features in Psychology's most recent update in my existing save; thus, I seek an answer here, if at all possible. I apologize if I seemed ungrateful or ignorant somehow, and thank you for your time.

I'm not implying you are, I'm just pointing out it explicitly says that you aren't supposed to use other social interaction mods with this one and any problems are your own responsibility.

If you've been using Puffins's mods, your pawns probably aren't Psychology pawns. This has always been the case, you were always sacrificing Psychology features to use those mods. I'm simply making a stronger statement on it now because I see this practice as inadvisable and while people can do what they want with their games, I don't want it to come back on me. I've already had people bundle this mod into mod packs with those mods, for goodness' sake, whose express purpose is not to have to fiddle with every mod in it for compatibility.

If you want to add Psyches to your old pawns, disable Puffins's mods and go into your save file and change all "Pawn" types to "Psychology.PsychologyPawn" types. Puffins's mods prevented this from happening since previously PsychologyPawn was only used for sexuality and his sexuality system was overriding mine. You will also want to delete all the Asexual/Bisexual/Straight traits as well, you can manually set their Kinsey rating/sex drive after you load and save.

Also, the compatibility section explicitly says to load Psychology last in all cases except Expanded Incidents, so you plainly didn't read that either.

You can order an attack on mental break pawns. Recruit a colonist, press B, and select the mental breakee. Tantruming pawns are marked guilty.

If a colonist doesn't have a weapon, drafting him and pressing B doesn't do anything for me. Right click gives me ability to try an arrest, but I think option to melee attack should be there too. Unless something is wrong with my game.

That's a vanilla issue.

[Madman666]

Ah, crap( I was hoping, that something can be done about that... Oh, well. At least tantrum throwers can be arrested. I hope you'll figure out why sadists can't. Dogs are usually most hardworking creatures in my towns... Seeing them harmed makes me sad and trigger happy.

[Scottnov]

I'm not implying you are, I'm just pointing out it explicitly says that you aren't supposed to use other social interaction mods with this one and any problems are your own responsibility.

If you've been using Puffins's mods, your pawns probably aren't Psychology pawns. This has always been the case, you were always sacrificing Psychology features to use those mods. I'm simply making a stronger statement on it now because I see this practice as inadvisable and while people can do what they want with their games, I don't want it to come back on me. I've already had people bundle this mod into mod packs with those mods, for goodness' sake, whose express purpose is not to have to fiddle with every mod in it for compatibility.

If you want to add Psyches to your old pawns, disable Puffins's mods and go into your save file and change all "Pawn" types to "Psychology.PsychologyPawn" types. Puffins's mods prevented this from happening since previously PsychologyPawn was only used for sexuality and his sexuality system was overriding mine. You will also want to delete all the Asexual/Bisexual/Straight traits as well, you can manually set their Kinsey rating/sex drive after you load and save.

Also, the compatibility section explicitly says to load Psychology last in all cases except Expanded Incidents, so you plainly didn't read that either.

I understand. I had only installed them both before as I thought they worked well together, but I suppose I should have thought farther ahead. I feel my initial wording of "do not seem to function properly alongside the new update regardless of what's actually activated with Psychology's newest version loaded beforehand" was rather poorly constructed; it actually had nothing to do with the actual load order, but instead different versions of the mod across different saves. I'll see what I can do about changing the save data, thanks for the advice.

[System.Linq]

You're welcome. Thanks for using the mod. I hope you can resolve things to your satisfaction, let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.

[WinterFlare]

Just asking out of curiosity because I just got the new update, non-psychology spawns will still interact with psychology pawns right? I know any mod that uses the alien framework won't be 100% compatible for a very long time, if at all, but I'm most just wondering if using these pawns in conjunction with the mod is going to break anything. IE: Are alien framework colonists flat out excluded from voting, can they still enter relationships with pawns that have kinsey ratings while they themselves do not, and how much the new Psyche system might affect their interactions.

It honestly isn't too big a deal for me, I honestly just like having animal people in my game because I think it diversifies it a bit.

[System.Linq]

Alien framework colonists are excluded from voting because voting is based on personality. Same with personality-based conversations, so all they can do is chitchat and insult/slight. They should still be able to enter relationships with pawns normally. I'll probably re-enable deep talks so that non-Psychology pawns can at least have them with each other.

[Madman666]

So how does this methadone work exactly? I tried it out on several addicts and it says Methadone in their health status under addiction, but other than that all negative maluses, moodlets and penatlies for withdrawals are in place still. Does it just stop the chemical need from decreasing, preventing pawn from having withdrawal maluses, while letting addiction slowly drop or am I wrong? Well, I seem to be, because chemical need still dropping and causing penalties to stats and mood once it reaches 0%...

[System.Linq]

It's supposed to prevent the negative moodlets, but actually changing the ThoughtWorker for those moodlets seems to have slipped through the cracks this update. Thanks for the report.