Prostitution

[kasnavada]

Kasnavada, you misunderstand me slightly. If you ACCEPT money, you are obligated to do so. If I run a shoe cleaning service, take 20 dollars then walk away, this is THEFT.  If for whatever reason I don't WANT to clean them, i hand you 20 bucks back, explain I won't do so, and then its fine.

The distinction is, if i ACCEPT money, meaning, take it from your hand, into mine, I have entered a CONTRACT that, in exchange for the money I am providing a SERVICE. Violating this contract by NOT giving service is illegal, and turns it into theft.

comparisons to waiters, cooks, and some salesmen i also inappropriate as MOST are not their own bosses. if a salesman is selling knives (and is self employed), I pay him 20 for a knife, and he walks away, he is liable for accepting funds and not giving the agreed service (distributing me a knife). For the same, for LEGAL prostitutes, wouldn't they be the same if they accept 300$ for anal, but then refuse? What would happen? Where does law side with? What if they are only halfway done and she backs out? Does she go to jail? if she obligated by law to finish? Is the refund given, even if she is in pain?

Unless any of you can answer these questions, we will get nowhere.

If you've accepted a contract, then you've accepted it => no abuse.
If your boss accepted a contract and you don't want to do it (for reasons which are in your contract with him) => he's legally obligated to find else someone to do it. So no abuse. If there is no valid reasons in your contract with him, then, again, you've accepted it => no abuse.


The only reason this "discussion" is getting nowhere because you're being oblivious and narrow-minded about it. There is no reason why there would be a difference between sex and any other kind of service requiring the time of a person, from haircuts to high-end consulting, or teaching. And the legal definition for those is very clear, and completely idiot-proof. If the system works properly, the right person is getting punished.

Basically you're asking for answers to questions which everyone else assumes rightly that they're already there. And that's because they are already there. You're not asking questions. You (and you alone) are making a special case of sex when everyone tells you it would legally work like anything else. And creating pseudo-questions to which the answer is already there.

[keylocke]

@mumble :

sigh. you don't even seem to be reading what i post.

as i said before : if the service they offer is sex, then that is what they provide.

if as you said, the prostitute offered anal (out of her own volition) and then decided to back out. then a refund can be done if the payment was already given in advanced..

but your main fallacy is that you just assume that ALL payments are given in advanced. that is not really the case is it? it's a silly strawman argument.

most likely scenario in a legal prostitution setup is that the contractor is the one deciding the services that they offer and that they can decline customer service BEFORE any payment is given at all..

i think you might be confused with illegal prostitution, which is NOT the same thing.

[mumblemumble]

Kasa, what about pay? What if a girl taps out halfway in? Does she not get paid because she couldn't do it?

Key, glad you FINALLY answered, but this presents ANOTHER problem. If she gets anal, taps out, and then is obligated to give a refund, she had been hurt, has wasted resources, has been emotionally hurt, and has absolutely nothing to show for it.  She is left in pain, left hurt, left in tears, and has not a dollar from it. And frankly, getting a refund, or NOT being charged are essentially the same thing in this context... Question is, is it right to do this for this girl? Do you think a girl might, due to the desperate need of money, force herself to endure it even to the point of tears? Is it right to do that kind of damage, justifying it by "shes agreeing to it"? In many poverty stricken countries, girls default into prostitution because theres such a dire need of money, and sex is  a way to do so. NOT because its enjoyable, NOT because they want sex, but because they want to eat, and have a roof over their head. I don't think this should be the way things go, womens burning themselves out on strangers for money, risking health, emotional wellbeing just for an income.

And as stated before, statistically speaking prostitutes have a much higher level of PTSD, Depression, drug abuse, ect. Are all of these worth it? And, DO YOU HAVE EVIDENCE that such issues can be REMOVED with proper laws? Because I haven't seen a study showing this is possible yet.

[keylocke]

@mumble :

but your main fallacy is that you just assume that ALL payments are given in advanced. that is not really the case is it? it's a silly strawman argument.

most likely scenario in a legal prostitution setup is that the contractor is the one deciding the services that they offer and that they can decline customer service BEFORE any payment is given at all..

i think you might be confused with illegal prostitution, which is NOT the same thing.

^how many times do you want me to repeat this line? i actually thought this can easily be inferred by logic. your argument is seriously flawed.

[kasnavada]

You're asking... What happens if an hairdresser passes out while doing an haircut ? And expecting a detailled different answer because it's sex and because you're basing your answers on the current state of prostitution being mostly thought of illegal. So you can troll the person answering asking for minute cases and small exceptions.

Please, stop trolling  .
I don't care I've got time, and love helping huge monsters from the mythology getting more and more ridiculous.

[mumblemumble]

Its not fallacious key,  and if you want how about this : girl agrees to anal,  taps out,  doesn't get paid,  but STILL is hurt,  emotionally shaken,  and needs aids testing after?  Is it fine,  that she was hurt,  penetrated by some random guy,  and has nothing to show for it,  and didn't explicitly want JUST sex? I know i would be horrified if a woman i knew got screwed,  was left in tears and pain,  and had nothing to show for it because she "couldn't perform".

Kas,  i said tap out NOT pass out meaning if a girl begged you to stop... Shes not paid then? Right? Because she didn't finish?

[keylocke]

@mumble :

girl agrees to anal,  taps out,  doesn't get paid,  but STILL is hurt,

agrees to do anal, taps out doesn't, get paid.

it's not much different to :

agrees to become a soldier, decides killing is a bad thing and decides to go AWOL, doesn't get paid.

--

the flaw in logic i'm pointing out is this : it's really not much different from other professions, even though you keep throwing in convoluted logic.

ie : don't accept a contract or offer a service that you are incapable or unwilling to provide. and if in case you are unable/unwilling to fulfill your end of the contract, then similar penalties apply just like in other professions. those are the main responsibilities of the contractor.

as for the customer, the same rules apply to prevent abuse. if a customer decides to abuse the contractor then that should be penalized, just the same way if you decide to violently assault your dentist.

i'm not even sure why you still don't get it.

---

as for the evils of illegal prostitution. it's like comparing a factory worker employed at Ford to a factory worker employed in a sweat shop in china (or whatever).

they might be doing the same kind of profession, but the treatment of the employee is NOT the same. simply because one treats their employees more humanely than the other.

illegal prostitution is closer to forced slavery, while legal prostitution is closer to a profession.

[kasnavada]

Its not fallacious key,  and if you want how about this : girl agrees to anal,  taps out,  doesn't get paid,  but STILL is hurt,  emotionally shaken,  and needs aids testing after?  Is it fine,  that she was hurt,  penetrated by some random guy,  and has nothing to show for it,  and didn't explicitly want JUST sex? I know i would be horrified if a woman i knew got screwed,  was left in tears and pain,  and had nothing to show for it because she "couldn't perform".

Kas,  i said tap out NOT pass out meaning if a girl begged you to stop... Shes not paid then? Right? Because she didn't finish?

And again, you' re asking, what if an hairdresser told you to stop being a jerk while he / she was cutting your hair ?
Ain't the answer OBVIOUS enough ?

[skullywag]

Can we keep this ontopic please, this is a suggestion not offtopic.