[MOD] (Alpha 2) RWSandboxMod (Low-level DLL mod for developers)

[JackQW]

How sure are you that current mods can't be viruses? 

[Vas]

How sure are you that current mods can't be viruses? 

How do you stick a virus inside an XML file?  It's just a data storage file, not a script.

[WorldOfIllusion]

I think Vas's point is that once Alpha 3 comes out and mods start using custom DLL files he won't download them for fear that they contain a virus that is hard for an anti-virus to detect (that was for some reason developed and then tested upon a community of a game still in alpha).

Also, as for fears of having to re-download the game every time, well, if you are doing that I don't think you are making a back up properly. Also, just keep a copy of the original ZIP that we all download rimworld as (if this is really an issue). Shouldn't be a problem for anyone that has actually bought the game...

[Vas]

I think Vas's point is that once Alpha 3 comes out and mods start using custom DLL files he won't download them for fear that they contain a virus that is hard for an anti-virus to detect (that was for some reason developed and then tested upon a community of a game still in alpha).

Also, as for fears of having to re-download the game every time, well, if you are doing that I don't think you are making a back up properly. Also, just keep a copy of the original ZIP that we all download rimworld as (if this is really an issue). Shouldn't be a problem for anyone that has actually bought the game...

I'll download mods, but not if they modify the core game files and require me to back up files all the time.  Nope.  It must be as easy as deleting a folder to remove a mod.

And what happens when an antivirus can't detect viruses in these mods, if someone somehow manages to create a key logger and does some very very bad things?  Some community members will place blame solely on the game developers rather than the person who made the mod.  That person can easily come back once banned too, having used a proxy and he will upload new virus mods, and the modding community will be destroyed permanently.

I don't want to see that happen, you can currently do a lot of things in Starbound without using files that can't be opened in a text editor.  The worst files there are LUA scripts I believe, and I'm unsure but I don't believe they can cause much harm, plus they can be opened in a text editor and read real easily.  In this game, till Alpha 3, this was also possible, but then again you couldn't add new functions to the game, only work with whatever Tynan gives you to work with.  With the addition of DLL abilities you'll be able to do more, except DLLs can't be opened in a text editor.  Sure you can provide source, but this only works for people who know the code, and the source doesn't show what is ACTUALLY in the DLL, because they could have compiled some bad code into the DLL without you knowing about it.  You'd only find out if you re-compiled the source and found out that your re-compiled DLL is a different size than the other.    I'm just considering all the possible bad things really.  You gotta think a lot about this stuff when a game changes how it is modded.  Not all members of the community are good people, you gotta remember that.  The current way mods are posted and stuff isn't that great, but I know this community is pretty much kicking off.  Anyway, this is just some food for thought.

Yes, I'll keep a copy of the game handy, and as for re-downloading it if you already bought the game, then that would be an issue if the downloads are limited to 5.    At least for someone who hasn't backed up properly.  And I wish I could afford the game, I would buy it immediately right now, if I had the money.  I'm in a rather bad situation, with no real hope for improvement.  This isn't the place for that though. 

I will download DLLs so long as it doesn't require me to back up my game for each and every single one.  It will just get to a point where it may get dangerous, and you'll have to put your trust in only a few people, and those few people aren't gong to stay with the program forever.

[JackQW]

DLL files are storage for logic.

Xml files are storage for logic.

Allow me to quote some of the errors possible in loading Xml in RimWorld;
"Tried to load ", this.asset, " while loading ", XmlLoader.loadingAsset, ". This will corrupt the internal state of DataLoader."
"Exception parsing ", xmlRoot.OuterXml, " to type ", typeof(T), ": ", exception.Message
"Could not load class " + attribute2.Value + " from node " + xmlRoot.OuterXml

Of the things that can be parsed, Types are among them.
It's not too far fetched to load a System.Net.HttpListener or WebClient or SmtpClient or just TcpClient or Udp client, or make use of UnityEngine.WWW...
Just because not every part of Xml is executed, doesn't mean it's invulnerable.
Just because most of a DLL is executed, doesn't mean it can't be safe.


But you should leave the naivete behind, mitigating risk is better done with firewalls, virtualization, learning who/what to trust, and being able to investigate.
If you want to eliminate the risk, then it's virtualization all the way...
There's no reason this game couldn't be ported to Google's NaCl, Unity specifically supports it, then we could mod core files all day long...

Until then or thence similar, you're going to have to decompile and dissect every little thing with wide eyes and tragic distrust.

Just wait until you see the crazy shit I'm doing with Xml files for Alpha 3.

[gl33mer]

Many thanks JackQW.

My first post also. So happy I stumbled on your little sandbox DLL mod (So generous to share your c# code like that).

I haven't played much (one real colony) (yet) but bought the game with modding in mind.

Total conversion as a first mod ;-) ?

It will have to wait. Maybe, on the weekend.

Anyhow. Thanks a bunch. Awaiting your stuff for Alpha 3 (and the alpha itself.) Will update with the Total Conversion mod as it comes along.

ps.

Can't believe where this thread went....

But had to write my first post (been busy as a bee ;-)