[structure] More "walls" to give more balance opportunity.

[Kegereneku]

Also an attempt to answer the question "how to bring player in the open ?" (or at least not punish them for not building fortress)


The idea :
Right now there's only one wall type, so of course it's an awesome wall, sturdy yet cheap to build. But in result it leave no room to balance the game between social/defense.
So the idea is to have different walls with different characteristic that you won't use as an universal Great-Wall-of-China.
As a side effect it would give much more visual creativity to our base pretty.
/!\ Obviously this change is expected along other balances that I leave to the devs. like say raider preferring to steal and leave than die, cave-in for mountain-base or making Manhunter not like terminator.

The suggestions :
- "Cheap Standard wall" : This is a fragile wall (visually thinner), it does everything the current wall do (heat...etc) but is fragile. (+ bonus to beauty and space of a room)
Balance parameter : cost, beauty, no-research

- "Costly Defensive wall" : this wall (visually as it is now) can also have roof, but it is much more costly and solid (slightly above the current wall), it is also required to support Mountain-roof (it has double heat isolation for better or worse)
Balance parameter : cost, strength, [optional : need research, replace floor]

- (optional)Fence : this is the cheap stuff, it doesn't protect from anything but if you want something to herds non-hostile Pathfinding that's what you would use, it's "deconstructed" by attack as if it didn't exist.

For doors, just apply the same logic + difference of speed.

- (optionall)Strut/Support : cheap, it doesn't block passage but you cannot build here, if (for balance) you wanted to reduce how much space a roof can cover this, would be what you put in place. /!\ Alternatively you could just have defensive wall have a bigger roof reach.


Expected results :
/!\ First of all, more lever to balance the game as new features are introduced.
And as a bonus you get another wall for prettier base

Open-base : defense-wall isn't used to encircle entire farms, you might be tempted to just build all adjacent room in the stuff but remember that cheap-wall have social-bonus and faster-doors. So you'd build only specific structure out of the defensive one.
Instead cheap-wall and their bonus become your standard. They can't resist sapper, so you'll want to intercept them outside or attract them to well protected building.
As a side benefit, cheaper wall could allow more risk-taking when you start the game.

Fortress : If you sacrifice social bonus, you can still circle or make the entire base out of defense-wall, but it will be very costly if you wish to protect crop and stockpile as well. If you planned much ahead you'll certainly get your indoor colony, using cheaper wall for the inside. Despite the name "fortress" you are still encouraged to go in the open as mortar become deadly against cheap-wall (that's by design you know, you shouldn't be invincible against everything or nickname raider "loot delivery")

Mountain-Bunker : I'm really counting on a Nerf versus Mortar, cave-in and the sort. Because those bunker would profit a lot from the arrangement. Alternating cheap-wall and Defense-wall for support and social bonus you get a base that is not utterly invincible, less ugly, get plenty of material and you get strong replacement wall after sappers dig in.

Reason for (optional) fence-physics :
We already have sand-bag for strong, firing position and it take the very important metals. So to not be easily used for exploit as ablative layer of walls, fence do not stop projectile and get destroyed on the path of anythings hostile.
What fence are for is deflecting pathfinding of any creature not attacking your structure to get at you. I'm not sure how hard it would work within AI but I see nothing impossible.

Reason for (optional) Strut-physics :
You want to balance how much area a roof can cover, but you don't want a wall blocking the way ? that would be a way. It would to allow to reduce room size without killing big table. /!\ Alternatively you could just have defensive wall have a bigger roof reach.


Don't hesitate to suggest refinement along the original objective, or just share your opinion of it.

[Jstank]

Can you add insulated wall to this idea?

Especially with the new way to make beer, it would be nice to have insulated walls for temperature controlled rooms like freezers and breweries.

[SpaceDorf]

This sounds all very reasonable, I like the Idea.

The Cheaper walls would also add to the Tribal Gameplay, given they could be made from furs for tents.
And I think different materials should have different kinds of insulation. ( Correct me, if they allready have )

[DariusWolfe]

I like the ideas here, but I have to say, this is just going to encourage people to build those perimeter walls you don't like.

Considering that your buildings will now be inherently less defensible because you're using the thinner walls for beauty and space, you're going to want to surround them with something heavier. You won't have to use quite as much material for walls, which will encourage bases outside of mountain fortresses, but you're still going to want that protective wall.

Inside mountain fortresses, the normal practice of replacing raw stone walls with constructed walls will continue, but it will use the cheaper, prettier walls instead of the current walls.

A factor that you could use to tweak things a bit more in favor of more open settlements would be to make the thinner walls not require research at all, but the thicker, more defensible walls would still require a gatekeeping research, like Stonecutting does now.

[baegle]

Why are open settlements to be encouraged? Walls are pretty much the only way I can figure out how to stay alive at all.

[DariusWolfe]

Because there are those who believe that the default playstyle of digging into a mountain, or having a heavily fortified perimeter wall is boring; Tynan has been said to say that he'd like to encourage more open colony styles as well (though this is apocryphal; I've never seen this statement, personally)

The thought is to make open colony formats more viable, at least in having unique rewards that cannot be gained by the safer playstyles. Some people do focus on the approach of making Mountainhomes less attractive/harder/more dangerous, but I'm in the camp of making open playstyles better, rather than making closed playstyles worse.

[Kegereneku]

Why are open settlements to be encouraged? Walls are pretty much the only way I can figure out how to stay alive at all.

Point, the correct wording is "shouldn't be discouraged".
Some people consider that playing without compact-fortress but separate building should be a perfectly valid playstyle. But as you say right now "you can barely stay alive without".
I'll be updating the OP

Considering that your buildings will now be inherently less defensible because you're using the thinner walls for beauty and space, you're going to want to surround them with something heavier. You won't have to use quite as much material for walls, which will encourage bases outside of mountain fortresses, but you're still going to want that protective wall.

All is in the details, the idea is that you won't be able to afford as much "heavy" defense-wall but you can deduce the cost of a cheap-wall if you build strong but without an external defense-wall.
I actually expect more material for mountain-base since you mine it out, but it will be slightly more restrictive to build inside and you could have a "less farmable land" problem.
I did said I would expect rebalance along this, if you reduce your defensibility you need less raider/tribal to challenge you, which in turn make your colonist versus enemy ratio more sustainable.

Now that I think about it, we could make heavy-wall replace the floor as well. Not definitive but immersive.
Aside, nice idea for the research.

[DariusWolfe]

you could have a "less farmable land" problem.

I see this idea mentioned a lot in the other thread, as a way of trying to say that Mountainhomes have their own difficulties, and I'm having trouble parsing it.

When other people talk about a Mountainhome, are they talking about a colony FULLY encased in the mountain, with no external structures aside from the door, and any sort of defensive structures? I often build Mountainhomes, but with plenty of external infrastructure, primarily farmland, solar and wind generators, and defensive structures as necessary, with my colonists often venturing out to hunt or to get resources from distant veins. The way I play it, Mountainhomes have pretty much no downsides, aside from the chance of a bug infestation.

[Kegereneku]

The other thread also had a lot of "raiders destroying/dismantling/stealing your outside stuff rather than just get killed and giving you loot".
For the record, I wouldn't want to make even harder to dig a mountain-home (fully enclosed) as it is its own fun when playing with different biomes/storyteller/scenario setting. However it does need to have it's downside...

I believe that if both mountain-homes and open-colony storytelling-difficulty evolved as equal -just with different consideration- you wouldn't feel cheating or cheated when playing one or the other. And the devs wouldn't have to send infestation-waves of manhunting-siege-sapper just to keep you challenged.