Suicide

[gamhd]

Like the ultimate mental break :

-Depressive and pessimist are most likely to kill themselves
-Possibility of failure, will cause injuries to the suicidal (depending the way he did it)
-Special mood : "learned about [NAME] suicide attempt" in case of failure
-Can not happen at any time, only during mental break such as Berserk, sad wandered, etc..
-We can't do shit about it
-Happens rarely
-Highly affect the mood of the others pawns (way more than usual death of a friend)
-With guns, drugs, medicines, electricity the possibilities are huge

What do you think ?

PS : sorry for my bad english

[O Negative]

I feel like suicide is both a good and a bad idea.

Implementing suicide and suicide attempts could make RimWorld an even more intense and better game than it already is. On the other hand, there are people who wouldn't respond well to this. Like, at all.

I feel like a good alternative would be a "drug binge" which wouldn't be labeled as suicide, but would lead to the same thing. Or, a mental break where a colonist tries to leave the colony entirely. The results are the same; you've lost a member of you society to a mental breakdown. As with most other mental breaks, arresting the pawn would still be an option, if you react in time.

That's just my two cents.

P.s. Your English is fine

[mumblemumble]

i think suicide could be good IF it was not just instantly dropping dead, but was more like slowly getting a gun, putting it in their mouth, waiting, and eventually firing, giving them time to think, and players time to react.

Possibly even having failed suicide attempts with medical damage, but no deaths, or just wusing out

[Xyntak]

I completely agree with O Negative. I think this would be a really good mechanic for the game but as someone who has been hospitalized for suicidal tendencies and whatnot, it's a little weird for me. Mumbles idea is just plain too far and quite disrespectful...

[Tenebrae]

Sounds good to me.

It might be prudent to have it set up so that it's something that can only happen if a colonist has lost several individuals, and pets, that they have a good relationship with. For example, they lose their beloved cat, mother, and sister...they may commit suicide when having a mental break. This way, players can come to expect it a little more and prepare in an attempt to prevent it from happening.

[Houkime]

I do agree that it might be not accepted by everyone.
But still it is a real thing and.. to be honest.. live on Rim Worlds seems indeed hard enough for this to happen.

Here are my thoughts on possible mechanics:

1. This should be a mark in like -30 - ish area of mood scale.
2. There should be a chance of softer break in -10 -ish when pawn decides to leave your colony. But this is not always possible (like on Ice Sheet).
3. There should be a special trait for a man that will never commit a suicide even if he is living in hell.
4. There should be some delay between decision and implementation so that other colonists can cope with it.
I think that for coping wth that there shall be either Tied status implemented (when pawn cannot do anything. Like in bed.) or some other colonist should be escorting suicidal pawn at all times till his mood improves.
As another variant you can sedate or make this pawn drunk, install a joywire, amputate both hands etc.
5. There should be a chance for failed attempt. So that after a failed attempt there is a cooldown of like several days.
6. It should be possible to transit from softer break (like berserk or daze) to suicide without returning to normal. (Because otherwise pawn will be stuck in softer breaks)
7. In some cases it should be possible to cope with self-inflicted injuries medically to save the pawn.

7. (Maybe) there should be no notification of attempt. Pawn just stops eating (without notifying player when starvation starts), or goes naked into blizzard, or takes luciferium, or goes straight to the attacking centipede, steps into a trap on the way home or quietly stabs itself with knife, or just do commands slower in battle in order to get itself killed... or whatnot. Like pawn is trying to hide his attempts from player (because player is its boss).
In this way it may be even no official suicide in game, but be like a hidden mechanics.

[schizmo]

I'm not into it. Suicide isn't the result of "feeling sad" it's usually the result of long term mental illness or a feeling of utter hopelessness for major systemic issues in ones life. I think it's also probably highly triggering for those who deal with these issues in real life, and adding it to the game would only serve to push those people away, which by extension makes the game less successful. We already have drug binges that can end in overdose, and people can already go berserk and wind up dead when other colonists attempt to beat them back into submission. There is no reason to add this. Not to mention on higher difficulties where mood is always a concern, you will just wind up with rampant suicide.

[Artorias]

Suicide makes part of reality just as berserk and drug binges, and should be added to Rimworld. Players would be forced to care more about colonist mood, but it's mood penalty should be not worse than usual death, otherwise suicide would wind up a suicide rampage, ending up really bad. Joe suiciding shouldn't make Harry and Bob follow him to hell

[A Friend]

Instead of an RNG event like berserk and binges, have it give the pawn a long-term health effect "Depression". Starting on 30%, it builds up slowly as long as the pawn's mood remains under the threshold and decreases even slower when it's above it.

Once it reaches 100%, then the player would be given a warning message and a few hours to try to talk the pawn down. Success will put it back to about 80% and a 20+ mood boost "Given hope" that would last a few seasons. Should they fail however, then the pawn will try to kill themselves with any weapon they may be holding. Though there would be a chance for them to just severely wound themselves instead of dying. Allowing for another chance to save them, when this happens the depression is put back to 90%.

The social mechanics can then come into play as having friends would act as a booster for recovery. The more friends you have, the faster you overcome depression. Their relation with the pawn will also affect their chances of successfully talking them down. But on the other side, losing friends, families and pets, will add instantly to the bar.

Drugs can also have a role here. Aside from providing happiness, there could also be some sort of anti-depressants or something that will prevent depression from building up.

TL;DR - Extreme Mental Breaks gives pawns "Depression" in their health tab. It builds up when they're sad or bad things happen to their friends and families and they recover when they're happy and have lots of friends. They'll only attempt suicide when they reach 100%. So, it's more of a disease than an event you have no control over.

Edit: Typos

[Tammabanana]

I completely agree with O Negative. I think this would be a really good mechanic for the game but as someone who has been hospitalized for suicidal tendencies and whatnot, it's a little weird for me. Mumbles idea is just plain too far and quite disrespectful...

This.

Suicide is contagious behavior - if a suicidal person sees somebody else commit suicide (even for pretend, in a game/movie; even if they just read about it in the news), it's like being given permission. If Harry and Bob were already leaning that way, yes, they might follow Joe to hell, this is a real thing.

For me, I would NOT want to see a Rimworld pawn try to commit suicide in a method that I can do too - holing up in their bedroom with a knife/gun, for example, or a deliberate drug overdose. But I'd be comfortable with Extreme mental breaks that have the potential for death by another source, like stripping down and walking out into the cold snap to sit down at the edge of the map, or going out to stand near a predator and wait, or even just walking out to the edge of the map and waiting to starve out there. If the mental break ends before suicide is successful, that's one way to prevent the death; it also allows the player time to send somebody out after them to arrest/rescue them.

But I would also want rescuing them to be something every non-psychopath pawn on the map would try to do automatically and immediately, without commands from the player, interruptible only by the player themselves drafting the pawns out of it, and with a serious mood hit to every non-psychopath pawn if the suicide is successful - and still a shaken/scared mood hit even if the suicide is prevented.

One of the biggest factors in suicide attempts is the feeling that nobody would care if you die; one of the biggest preventatives is knowledge that people would care. I feel like, if Engie despairs and goes out into the wilderness to freeze to death, that's scary; but if all her buddies follow and bring her home and start engaging in "cheer up patient"/joy/doctoring activities with Engie, that becomes comforting, for me as a player. There should be a Wardening activity for keeping Engie company for a season or so, particularly doing joy activities together, chatting, or eating meals together. (Actually, I would like it if this Warden job existed for any impending/recent mood break. People should take care of each other.)

Also - Schizmo's not wrong about the causes of suicide; it's never a result of a bad mood. It should be a rare mental break, either with a low PctPawnsEverDo, or a low base chance, or tied to the Depressive trait. (Not Pessimist. These are vastly different things, and Depressive doesn't belong on the mood scale to begin with. God, I gotta mod that.  Has anybody modded it already?)

But I also think Houkime's not wrong, that living on a Rimworld could count as triggering utter hopelessness for major systemic issues in ones life - if things are going badly enough for the colony. Perhaps this could be addressed by letting the chance rise, for a particular pawn, in proportion to the number of other major/extreme mental breaks that pawn has had already. Suicide shouldn't be the first way a non-Depressed pawn breaks, but I think that if a pawn has already gone through a number of berserk/pyro/psychotic breaks, they've probably hit a point where suicide's not off the table anymore.

[Tammabanana]

Instead of an RNG event like berserk and binges, have it give the pawn a long-term health effect "Depression". Starting on 30%, it builds up slowly as long as the pawn's mood remains under the threshold and decreases even slower when it's above it.

Once it reaches 100%, then the player would be given a warning message and a few hours to try to talk the pawn the down. Success will put it back to about 80% and a 20+ mood boost "Given hope" that would last a few seasons. Should they fail however, then the pawn will try to kill themselves with any weapon they may be holding. Though there would be a chance for them to just severely wounding themselves instead of dying. Allowing for another chance to save them, when this happens the depression is put back to 90%.

The social mechanics can then come into play as having friends would act as a booster for recovery. The more friends you have, the faster you overcome depression. Their relation with the pawn will also affect their chances of successfully talking them down. But on the other side, losing friends, families and pets, will add instantly to the bar.

Drugs can also have a role here. Aside from providing happiness, there could also be some sort of anti-depressants or something that will prevent depression from building up.

TL;DR - Extreme Mental Breaks gives pawns "Depression" in their health tab. It builds up when they're sad or bad things happen to their friends and families and they recover when they're happy and have lots of friends. They'll only attempt suicide when they reach 100%. So, it's more of a disease than an event you have no control over.

I like all of this except using the weapon they're holding, for the "I could do that", too-close-to-home reason.

[A Friend]

"STAND BACK! I've got a hat, A COWBOY HAT and I'm not afraid to suffocate myself with it!"

Hmmm... mysterious death of sadness?

[Houkime]

Instead of an RNG event like berserk and binges, have it give the pawn a long-term health effect "Depression". Starting on 30%, it builds up slowly as long as the pawn's mood remains under the threshold and decreases even slower when it's above it.

Once it reaches 100%, then the player would be given a warning message and a few hours to try to talk the pawn the down. Success will put it back to about 80% and a 20+ mood boost "Given hope" that would last a few seasons. Should they fail however, then the pawn will try to kill themselves with any weapon they may be holding. Though there would be a chance for them to just severely wounding themselves instead of dying. Allowing for another chance to save them, when this happens the depression is put back to 90%.

The social mechanics can then come into play as having friends would act as a booster for recovery. The more friends you have, the faster you overcome depression. Their relation with the pawn will also affect their chances of successfully talking them down. But on the other side, losing friends, families and pets, will add instantly to the bar.

Drugs can also have a role here. Aside from providing happiness, there could also be some sort of anti-depressants or something that will prevent depression from building up.

TL;DR - Extreme Mental Breaks gives pawns "Depression" in their health tab. It builds up when they're sad or bad things happen to their friends and families and they recover when they're happy and have lots of friends. They'll only attempt suicide when they reach 100%. So, it's more of a disease than an event you have no control over.

I actually like this too.
It really is a good idea on its own.
A Friend, would you like to create a separate thread on Depression Mechanics and Mental Health?
Even if there will be no suicide, constant poor mood being a trigger for slow development of mental issues that affect consciousness, manipulation and such is a great idea.

I would also consider some other mental issues. For example, if pawn butchers (or operates) humans all time, slaughter animals, kills left and right or observes blood and corpses too often he might obtain a Psychopath trait after a period of Psychopathy mental issue development.
Or pawn can become a Pyromaniac during a large fire. ^_^
Or a prostophobe if a man with prosthetic arm killed his wife.
etc.

I think Tammabanana is right that there should be some softening details like only exotic ways of suicide (same that with Kerbal Space Program. Deaths of Kerbals feel a bit distant because they die usually in very exotic ways.)

And a very high will for others to help would be nice too.

I don't know whether raiders should stop their assault to rescue a suicidal pawn.
That would be very kind and warm, but a bit unrealistic.
But maybe with some chance. ))) Especially if they are only to steal stuff.
Makes a good story.

[LutherX]

I like this idea and am all for it. Since it obviously isn't for anyway, a simple solution would be to have a toggle for it in options.

[MikeLemmer]

Or, a mental break where a colonist tries to leave the colony entirely.

I agree with this one. It has the same gameplay effect as a suicide while avoiding the sensitive issues surrounding it. Not to mention there's a precedent for people marching off to their deaths in desperate situations. Letting colonists injure/kill themselves would require mechanic changes, and open the door to some scenarios with... rather disturbing implications. ("I got this hideously ugly colonist who wasn't good at anything, so I forced him to sleep outside and eat slop until he snapped and killed himself. My other colonists got a mood buff from his suicide because they disliked him.")