Armor & Shields

Started by Draegon, September 19, 2016, 10:49:23 AM

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Draegon

Currently the game has very little armor, just the helmets, armor vest, and power armor. I was thinking that there should be more armor, such as knight like plate armor (great against any melee damage but weak against bullets, could have steel and plasteel which would be stronger), chainmail, chitin armor you can make from dead bugs, shields that could block melee damage, wooden armor (could make the pawn more flammable plus it would be rather weak compared to metal). Feel free to post any other ideas regarding armor.

nccvoyager

I had been thinking about armour in RimWorld for a while now, and I did some research while thinking about making a mod for it.  (I ended up not finishing the mod because, well, I could not do the art, myself.)

So, I learned a few things while doing all that...

Full Plate Armour
It should be noted that real life full plate armour is not nearly as heavy as it is often portrayed in movies and games.
In fact, full plate armour was actually almost as light as chain-mail, and often lighter than scale-mail.
Real full plate was only a couple millimeters thick, at most, and tended to deflect the edge of blades, and cause slow-moving projectiles like shortbow arrows to bounce off.
That being said, plate armour was actually very susceptible to piercing weaponry, such as the point of daggers, thin-bladed swords, and spears, which simply pierced directly through the armour.
Plate armour was also very susceptible to blunt weaponry, such as maces, morning stars, and large rocks thrown from slings, which dented or crushed the armour, or caused shocking vibrations in the armour that disoriented and deafened the wearer.
Some soldiers that fought in full plate against others in full plate were known to sometimes hold their sword by the blade, and smash the pommel (handle) of their swords against their opponents!
Full plate also had the disadvantage of basically being a large metal can you are wearing, and provided no real protection against cold, and actually made heat more dangerous in many situations.

Scale-mail and Chain-mail
Scale-mail was actually more versatile than full plate in many ways, though it was also often the heaviest.
Scale-mail could often deflect the edges of blades almost as well as full plate could.
Scale-mail also had the ability to absorb mild blunt impacts and distribute the shock across a wider area, causing the wearer bruising, but reducing the direct impact of the weaponry.
Scale-mail was not as useful against arrows as full plate, as several arrows being landed in the same area could break a link and pierce the armour, and lucky shots could find their way between sections near the neck and waist.
Scale-mail was actually somewhat useful against piercing weaponry, the "scales" interlocked over each other and could block pointed weapons.
Being made of interlocked "scales" of metal, scale-mail did not provide protection against cold, and while it was more breathable and less dangerous to wear in heat, the weight of scale-mail often made exhaustion a possibility in hot conditions.

Chain-mail
Chain-mail was less directly useful than full plate, though it was the lightest of the metal armours.
Chain-mail was not that useful against arrows as links could be broken, and weak points could be found, though chain-mail was quite useful in absorbing attacks from blunt weaponry and distributing the shock across a wide area, greatly reducing the tendency for blunt weapons to crush bones and pulverize internal organs.
Chain-mail was sometimes worn underneath full plate to augment the deflecting abilities of the full plate, with the shock absorption of the chain-mail.
Chain-mail neck covers were sometimes used to reduce the likelihood of an arrow or sword severing the head of a soldier.
Chain-mail could reduce the damage from piercing attacks by distributing the force of a sword thrust across the armour causing major bruising.
A well-placed thin sword point or dagger thrust could part the links and allow the weapon to pierce the armour, however.
Being highly breathable (being covered in holes) chainmail did not provide protection against the cold, nor did it insulate against heat, though chain-mail also did not cause overheating directly.

Studded Leather
Studded leather could absorb mild cuts, slices, and stabs from small weapons, and could absorb or lessen impact from some slow-moving projectiles.
Studded leather was actually somewhat useful against piercing weapons like daggers, though often only covered the torso.
Studded leather could provide some protection from cold, though was often uncomfortable to wear in the heat.

Shields
Shields came in many varieties, though most were not used as they are portrayed in movies and games.

Small Shields
Small shields were used in combat to attempt to deflect or parry (not absorb) impact from swords, maces, spears, and so on.
Small shields were minimally effective against ranged weapons, being, well, small.
Small shields were usually made of a mix of wood, leather, and metal studs, though small "bucklers" were sometimes made of mostly metal.

Medium Shields
Medium shields were used when mobility was required, but ranged defense was also necessary.
Again, medium shields could be used to deflect (but not absorb) melee weapon attacks, and could be used to deflect or absorb projectiles with mild effectiveness, though well-aimed shots could still hit legs depending on how the shield was held.
Medium shields were usually made of a mixture of wood, leather, and metal, though mostly-metal "kite" shields were also popular.

Large Shields
Large shields were not usually held in the off-hand as shown in many movies and games.
Large shields were used when defense against arrows or charging armies were required.
Large shields allowed a soldier to dig in and absorb the brunt of the force of a charging spear man or arrows/bolts.
Once melee was engaged, large shields were often too bulky to be used effectively in combat, and were thrown aside, or directly used as a two-handed weapon in and of itself.
Large shields were usually made of metal, and some had leather straps for holding or stowing.

Tower Shields
Tower shields were used for defense, or slow-moving siege advances.
Being tall and heavy, tower shields were large and could absorb the impact from long-ranged weaponry, in order to protect a group of soldiers.
Tower shields were often heavy enough that they could provide first-strike defense against charging melee fighters, and even cavalry.
Unfortunately, once within melee range, tower shields became nearly useless, even if they were held in two hands.
Tower shields were usually made of metal, though cheaper wood-and-straw shields were sometimes used for defense against archers alone.


Of course, remember that these are all generalities, and I do not claim that the sources I gleaned this information from are completely accurate.
Also; wow.  I did not expect to write that much information on the subject.

MikeLemmer

Personally, I'd just like there to be a type of armor you can make from Steel (no components) at a Smithy, a Shield you can equip, and separating weapons (+ the shield) into 1-handed and 2-handed stuff.

Would be nice to give a colonist a pistol and a knife.

Boston

Almost all of the above is nonsense.

I don't have time to discuss everything wrong with it, but, believe me, there is a lot.

LordUbik

Quote from: Boston on September 20, 2016, 01:29:39 AM
Almost all of the above is nonsense.

I don't have time to discuss everything wrong with it, but, believe me, there is a lot.

+1

Good lord, so many wrong things...

Thane

Chain mail? Absorb shock? Weak against arrows? Wut?
It is regular practice to install peg legs and dentures on anyone you don't like around here. Think about that.

carbon

Sexy snowwoman armor? Check!

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sadpickle

I'd like to see chain-mail added, only because it's not particularly difficult to make chainmail. It's just time-consuming. Tens or even hundreds of hours of very simple linking and crimping tiny rings. All you need is a huge-ass pile of link and a pair of pliers, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-6QJT-LD8

Boston

Quote from: sadpickle on September 20, 2016, 10:05:19 PM
I'd like to see chain-mail added, only because it's not particularly difficult to make chainmail. It's just time-consuming. Tens or even hundreds of hours of very simple linking and crimping tiny rings. All you need is a huge-ass pile of link and a pair of pliers, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-6QJT-LD8

Butted mail, which is what Lindybeige is making in that video, is shit. Complete and utter shit. "Real" mail was riveted, and used a mix of solid and riveted links. You can burst butted mail links with a knife.

TrashMan

Quote from: nccvoyager on September 19, 2016, 07:19:43 PM
That being said, plate armour was actually very susceptible to piercing weaponry, such as the point of daggers, thin-bladed swords, and spears, which simply pierced directly through the armour.

Wrong.
You needed a polearm or something with big weight and continuous impulse to pierce plate. A dagger won't do s***. Even longbow arrows and crossbows were not very effective (they might pierce the plate, but the resulting damage to the person wearing the armor would be small to none, given the other two defensive layers and hte plate absorbing most of the energy)

Wex

Crossbows were traditionally used against heavy plate armor
The crossbow (expecially true with bodkin bolts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodkin_point) Will pierce plate armor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossbow
"You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant."
    Harlan Ellison

nccvoyager

  I agree I made many generalities, and I did mention that some of my sources were likely outdated, incomplete, or possibly even false.
  I realize now, I should have mentioned that I had been talking about the specific types of armours on their own, and not layered armours.
  Plate alone did not provide nearly the same protection as plate worn atop chain.
  Plate, scale, and chain armours all provided great protection against slashing.
Plate (as in chest plate, breast plate, cuirass) was indeed quite thick, and could indeed stop most weaponry, sometimes even standing against a cavalry charge.  (Though, the soldier wearing it? Not so much.)
  Gothic plate was the early form of the "heavy plate" we often see portrayed, though it fell out of favour very quickly due to the extreme weight and cost of creating it.
  Full plate that was worn by soldiers on horseback was indeed still quite heavy, though it became cumbersome once leaving horseback.
The "full plate" that is nearly impenetrable was, after lighter plate started being produced, usually only produced and used for events such as jousting.
  Full plate (worn by soldiers on foot, and not on horseback) was not as thick, needing to cover the entire body while remaining mobile.
It was most often augmented with chain, creating a very defensible armour, though it was thinner than chest plate in order to reduce the weight.
  Crossbow bolts and longbow arrows, armour piercing versions of course, could very well pierce this lighter plate in many places.
  "Shock" may not have been the best description for the type of blunt damage, but at the time, I couldn't think of another word to describe "damage resulting from the armour around your head being hit with a large hammer hard enough to make your ears ring and your vision blur while you frantically attempt to block another blow from landing."
  Plate on it's own could withstand blunt attacks such as those from small maces and morning stars.
It could not, on it's own, stand against war hammers.
  Rondel daggers were specifically designed to pierce armour, and could be used to great effect in piercing plate near joints in the armour, such as near the neck, arms, and legs.  I never said that they would be used to directly pierce through a breast plate.  That's just stupid.
Misericorde daggers were also designed with a similar purpose, though they were most often used to deliver a Coup De Grace to an already mortally wounded knight.
Stilleto knives were also used by knights for the same purpose.
  All armour is susceptible to a well-placed arrow or bolt.
Arrow or bolt in your eye-slit?  Possible.
Arrow or bolt piercing a seam in your armour?  Possible.
Arrow or bolt piercing directly through your breastplate?  Actually, depends on the type of plate, what materials it is made from, and the manufacturing process.
  The type of a specific armour is just as important as the base type.
As mentioned, butted chain is actually very weak to being pierced.
The best types of chain, which took much longer to make, and was usually made from much better materials, was very expensive, and not widely used by the majority of forces.
  Indeed, it is to be noted that breast-plate (a cuirass, and not all of a plate set) was worn by conquistadors and could deflect bullets.
That said, however, the breast plates worn by the conquistadors were much thicker and heavier than those used by foot soldiers before the advent of gunpowder.


Regardless, as I have mentioned several times now, these are all generalities.
Different manufacturing processes, materials, and whether armour is layered or not can all determine how strong the armour is to any specific type of weaponry.

I have other things to do, so I'm just going to talk about the topic at hand instead of continuing on this tangent from here on.

It is a very nice idea, adding more armour...
That being said, while ballistic armour vests have a fairly standard "level of protection" we can associate with them, as we can see other armours are more complex.
I would start with scale armour, as it was (supposedly) the earliest of these metal armours, and (also supposedly) provided better protection against bludgeoning than (chain) mail did.

sadpickle

Quote from: Boston on September 20, 2016, 11:38:51 PM
Quote from: sadpickle on September 20, 2016, 10:05:19 PM
I'd like to see chain-mail added, only because it's not particularly difficult to make chainmail. It's just time-consuming. Tens or even hundreds of hours of very simple linking and crimping tiny rings. All you need is a huge-ass pile of link and a pair of pliers, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O-6QJT-LD8

Butted mail, which is what Lindybeige is making in that video, is shit. Complete and utter shit. "Real" mail was riveted, and used a mix of solid and riveted links. You can burst butted mail links with a knife.
Ahhh, that's interesting. Well shit, who has the time to make riveted mail  ::)