Charge rifles are too common

[iceteazz]

 _ Guys, i just want some more weapon that balanced Charged Rifle is balanced as a high end weapon. Now we need some weapons that fill the gap between AR and CR, for example : i edited High Caliber mod that i deleted all stuff except AK-74, change it to AK-47 ( both cartridge size, icon, name etc ) It deals 15 damage per shot, but only 2 shots each burts ( 30 damage in total ) and has the same other stat like AR, is it balanced  yet ? :3 The mats needed to craft AK-47 is 300 steel ( 150 steel and 6 components ) We need more mats to craft it than AR because of balancing, higher power means more expensive in game.

[Boston]

I'll also say that having the assault rifle have half the damage of the survival rifle seems a little odd, assuming they're of similar calibers. Bringing AR damage to 18 would be overkill, mind, given the AR's burst. I'm not sure. Maybe a general damage buff for non-CR weapons is in order?

They aren't. The Assault Rifle is based off the M16, which is 5.66 x 45mm. The Survival Rifle is based off a Short Magazine Lee Enfield, which is .303 British. 5.66mm is .223 in diameter.

The survival rifle should be far more lethal than the assault rifle, it fires a larger + heavier bullet at roughly the same velocity, and impacts with over 1000 more Joules of force.

[brcruchairman]

They aren't. The Assault Rifle is based off the M16, which is 5.66 x 45mm. The Survival Rifle is based off a Short Magazine Lee Enfield, which is .303 British. 5.66mm is .223 in diameter.

The survival rifle should be far more lethal than the assault rifle, it fires a larger + heavier bullet at roughly the same velocity, and impacts with over 1000 more Joules of force.

This is a good point. However, the question remains of how much of that energy is transferred to the target, and how much is wasted by being left over after the round punches through. The 5.66 x 45 mm tumbles a bit, yeah? That'd transfer more energy to the target, in a similar fashion to hollow points. However, that's purely academic, because, as you pointed out, they AREN'T the same caliber, so regardless of tumbling or energy transfer, the difference in damage remains justified based on the different bullet characteristics in the first place. So, thank you for pointing out my flawed assumption! Assuming they're of similar calibers doesn't seem to be a good assumption at all. :p 

But yeah, as iceteazz says, some more balancing would be handy.

[Mikhail Reign]

They aren't using miraculous hand tools, they are using hammers, axes, welding torches. Do you even pay attention in-game? Take a listen to some of the sounds they make whenever the colonists work at a task. Chop down trees? Axe sounds. Mine some rock? Pickaxe. Build something? Hammer and saw. Work on something mechanical? Welding torch. All tools that would likely be a part of any colonization effort, and specifically mentioned as existing in the fiction primer.

Well the 'rock' they mine, isn't a ore, its a prefabricated steel or plasteel structure, so yeah they aren't beating that apart with a pick. Also, unless its been removed since it went to steam, the flash and spark when they hit stuff implies that it isn't a regular 20th century tool. The fact that its a man portable axe/wrench/welder/solider/hammer/surgical tool/whatever else they need, I imagine its something akin to a sonic screw driver - a sort of jack-of-all-trades device that can become what it needs to, using some future tech that would sound like magic to us, but would be as ubiquitous as a Swiss Army Knife to the Rim people.

The colonists also don't have access to "awesome batteries" and "super magnets". First of all, where are you seeing magnets in-game? As far as I can tell, there are none. As for batteries, they actually kind of suck. Generally, the trend for more advanced technology is to get more compact and more efficient.  Batteries that take up the same amount of space as a bed and explode on an alarmingly-regular basis are not "awesome". They sound like cribbed-together junk. Which is what they are. Modern batteries are more efficient.

Well given that this wonder tool never runs dry, it has some pretty awesome power generation/storage capabilities. Also it can be used to make a reactor that can power a spaceship, so its got to have some tech. Their batteries are able to charge and discharge amounts of power that for us is insane (you create a battery bank the size of a single bed that is able to power a house and then be recharged in a matter of minutes)- so yeah they are futuristic and awesome, even if a bit dodgy. As for magnets - you cant make a reactor or even a simple electronic door without magnets - even if you don't make a 'magnet' in-game, the things they produce imply they they are able to make them.

I can build a bow in my backyard, actually. A bow is far simpler to make than a firearm, which in turn is far simpler to make than a railgun.

I'm going to say 'No, you cant'. I don't doubt that you would be able to make something that looks exactly like a bow, maybe even move a arrow through the air enough to embed in a light target. You would not be able to make a actual combat bow - the necessary knowledge in wood is amazingly high. You have to use the wood from the right part, of the right tree, at the right time of year, prepare it in the right way, have a working knowledge of that particular woods compression and tensile strengths, run the grain the the appropriate direction, shape the wood in the correct way to optimism that particular pieces characteristics.

Take a look at the fiction primer of Rimworld sometime, and you will realize that a large part of the theme of Rimworld is how technology is unsustainable. The whole reason there are tribes and "modern" people on the Rimworlds is specifically because they couldn't sustain all the superawesome shit they had on Glitterworlds. It is why components and breakdowns were added, and why there are specifically non-powered versions of almost every workbench in the game. If you can't support your current level of technology, TECH DOWN. Stop using DEW and use cartridge-based firearms. Stop using firearms and use bows and arrows.

Thats one way to interpret it. Ty has never said that tho - a lot of the unpowered stuff was simply added because us as a fan base asked for it because it turned out that people really dug the tribal stuff.

You might be able to crib together a zipgun, but could you sustain it? Make new parts for it when they break, make new ammunition (not find new ammunition, but make new ones)? Chances are almost overwhelmingly likely no.

If I had a tool like they did that made parts, yeah I reckon I could. The chemical side of it would be when it got hard, because you would have to source specific chemicals to make ancient recipes, which is why I suggest they would use more current, and familiar tech.

A railgun, or other advanced technology for that matter, is that multiplied by 100000. Hell, "modern" technology in and of itself is unsustainable.  Can you build a refrigerator, without the internet or a guide telling you how? How about a windmill? A heater? You do realize that, if society were to somehow collapse in real life, humanity would be back to the Iron Age within a couple of generations, and we would never be able to have another Industrial Revolution? We used up all the resources.

I.... I dont get this one. Yeah I could build a refrigerator - not a modern one, but a kerosene one quite easily. But then a windmill? Thats just a wooden structure, which I've built more then a couple of, with a supported bearing, a sail and a universal joint - so yeah I could make that too. If I had to make everything my self (except the initial tool) I'd replace nails with wooden dowels, but yeah its doable. And then a heater; a fire - done. ? If you are talking about a spaceheater, thats just a heating element (a controlled short circuit) with a fan behind it - you could do the same (and I have done in my shed) with a fire and a fan. I really dont get if you are saying those things would be hard to make - if I was stuck in the wild, with a tool that was capable of fabricating 'parts' like theirs is, none of those things you listed would be outside my knowledge to construct, given enough time, manpower and desire. A bow on the other hand uses a whole heap of principles that I have no familiar basis with.

I consider myself pretty familiar with most examples of modern technology, but that doesn't mean I could reproduce it. I know the mechanics behind a computer, but I couldn't build one out of scrap. I know the mechanics behind an internal combustion engine, but I couldn't build one from scrap.

Same here, yet the Rimworld people do (cyro pods must use a computer. that spaceship has a computer in it somewhere. etc etc). Either they are all nuclear scientists, or those tools help them.

Oh, and the setting is clearly in the future. Are you missing the space ships flying by, the mechanic killer-bots, and the Directed Energy Weapons?

Pretty much yeah - all the cool futuristic stuff is largely incidental - the spaceships could (and are) get replaced by local caravans, the mechs almost seem jarring when I encounter them simply because how out of place they feel in context. I'm sitting in my cave, guarding my cotton plantation with bolt action rifles behind sandbags, running the power off burning wood, raising cows and then ROBOTS.

Rimworld feels 90% modern with 10% future shoehorned - and for no reason - the futuristic stuff always feel almost the same as its 1000 year counter part. What I'm suggesting is making the 'old' stuff 100-400 years old, plainly inspired by 1000 year old stuff.

Relating more directly to this post - what you could then do would be buff some of the lower tier weapons slightly to make them more competitive with the charged rifle in certain situations (eg: slightly extend the survival rifles firepower and rate to make it a more solid step between the sniper and the charged rifle; make the pistol more accurate at shorter range with a bit more punch and slightly shorter aim time and next-to-no move cool down etc etc), nerfing the Charged a little in terms of its universal-ness (lower damage, increase fire rate, lower accuracy).

[Boston]

I imagine its something akin to a sonic screw driver - a sort of jack-of-all-trades device that can become what it needs to, using some future tech that would sound like magic to us, but would be as ubiquitous as a Swiss Army Knife to the Rim people.

Those first two words invalidate everything that come after them. You "can imagine" whatever you like, but you would, well..... you would be wrong. Sorry.

Plus, you do realize that steel sparks when struck with another piece of steel, right? This is how modern firestarters work. I can take my knife and strike a spark off of almost anything steel with enough carbon content. There goes your argument.

Well given that this wonder tool never runs dry

There is no wonder tool, pal. All you have is headcanon.

I'm going to say 'No, you cant'. I don't doubt that you would be able to make something that looks exactly like a bow, maybe even move a arrow through the air enough to embed in a light target. You would not be able to make a actual combat bow - the necessary knowledge in wood is amazingly high. You have to use the wood from the right part, of the right tree, at the right time of year, prepare it in the right way, have a working knowledge of that particular woods compression and tensile strengths, run the grain the the appropriate direction, shape the wood in the correct way to optimism that particular pieces characteristics.

I....... I have a bow sitting right next to me. I made it with my own two hands. How are you going to tell me I didn't? I hunt deer with it. I've killed deer with it. It draws 60lbs at 24 inches.

Thats one way to interpret it. Ty has never said that tho - a lot of the unpowered stuff was simply added because us as a fan base asked for it because it turned out that people really dug the tribal stuff.

Considering how the nonpowered stuff was added in the same update that added components, breakdowns and other calamities, it is a little more complicated and involved than "lol lemme add this cuz tribal"

If I had a tool like they did that made parts, yeah I reckon I could. The chemical side of it would be when it got hard, because you would have to source specific chemicals to make ancient recipes, which is why I suggest they would use more current, and familiar tech. 

NO FUCKING WONDERTOOL EXISTS IN THE GAME. You keep on referring to this "wonder tool" that flat-out doesn't exist. Your entire argument is based on this. Stop.

I.... I dont get this one. Yeah I could build a refrigerator - not a modern one, but a kerosene one quite easily. But then a windmill? Thats just a wooden structure, which I've built more then a couple of, with a supported bearing, a sail and a universal joint - so yeah I could make that too. If I had to make everything my self (except the initial tool) I'd replace nails with wooden dowels, but yeah its doable. And then a heater; a fire - done. ? If you are talking about a spaceheater, thats just a heating element (a controlled short circuit) with a fan behind it - you could do the same (and I have done in my shed) with a fire and a fan. I really dont get if you are saying those things would be hard to make - if I was stuck in the wild, with a tool that was capable of fabricating 'parts' like theirs is, none of those things you listed would be outside my knowledge to construct, given enough time, manpower and desire

1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question: where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile, the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls, the electricity?

Same here, yet the Rimworld people do (cyro pods must use a computer. that spaceship has a computer in it somewhere. etc etc). Either they are all nuclear scientists, or those tools help them.

Or, almost infinitely more likely, they are capable of building said things due to gameplay, and the fact that the game isn't out of Alpha yet.

[Mikhail Reign]

1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question: where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile, the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls, the electricity?

A: nice 'tude.
B: the same place they get their gunpowder, copper casing and primers?

They build a nuclear reactor, and a cryogenic freezer with their hands. They have some kind of tool.

[Boston]

1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question: where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile, the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls, the electricity?

A: nice 'tude.
B: the same place they get their gunpowder, copper casing and primers?

They build a nuclear reactor, and a cryogenic freezer with their hands. They have some kind of tool.

Hey, you were the one that brought up a campfire, when you knew perfectly well what I was referring to.

They do have tools. Hand tools.

You do realize that nuclear reactors are built, maintained and serviced using regular hand and power-tools, right? Literal wrenches They are glorified steam turbines. All they have to do is move water around. Pipes and pumps.

A 17 year old actually built a reactor in his backyard. Didn't work, but he didn't have no fancy-shmancy sonic screwdriver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn

Anyways, I am done discussing this with you. It is evident we do not, and will not, see eye to eye.

[Mikhail Reign]

Reactors may be put together with tools, the parts are made on industrial construction lines - something the colonists do on the spot with their sparking wonder tools. Also love the irony in 'pffh gunpowder, copper and primers? easy fix. Pipes, gears, oil and wires? Impossible hurdle!'

Anyways, I am done discussing this with you. It is evident we do not, and will not, see eye to eye.

No worries. Wanta call me a imbecile a few more times first? Get it outa ya system?

[Ramsis]

How about everyone just chill out before I start passing around punishment? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[iceteazz]

 _ Chill dudes, we are talking about Charged Rifle, not other stuff or why we can't make rail guns but space ships and orbital trading are common. And don't ask me why they can transport your goods on the ground to their space ship in trading lol.

_ We need some more guns to fill the gap between AR and CR. or make those gun less powerfull in close range so other close range weapons could be used.

[Mikhail Reign]

_ Chill dudes, we are talking about Charged Rifle, not other stuff or why we can't make rail guns but space ships and orbital trading are common. And don't ask me why they can transport your goods on the ground to their space ship in trading lol.

_ We need some more guns to fill the gap between AR and CR. or make those gun less powerfull in close range so other close range weapons could be used.

I was never really not chilled - he started yellin', screaming' n calling me names over it - my reply was more a 'well if ya wanta be that way' then anything else.

But yeah - that's pretty much my point ey? We have charge rifles, bionics and genetically modified exploding rats - why be happy with 'fun' when it could have the same in-game theme as the rest of it. Sure current fire arms might be a niche thing, but you figure a better stand in for a low level gun would be a low quality/old current tech weapon, then a ancient completely different weapon.

Ya last point is what I was sayin @ the end of my last big post where it all came back around - if we scootched the low level guns up towards the Charged a bit more, brought the charged down a bit and put 'modern' gun if to match/better the AR I think it would fill out nicely.

[Shurp]

Change of subject: an M16 round is faster than a survival rifle round.  But the survival rifle round still packs more punch:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
783 m/s, 3574J

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
900 m/s, 1807J

So the "Assault Rifle" should be pushed up from 7 to at least 9.

The AK47 round is surprisingly not that more deadly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9739mm
738 m/s, 2,179J

A damage of 11 might work there.  In any case, 7 is not nearly enough.

[iceteazz]

Change of subject: an M16 round is faster than a survival rifle round.  But the survival rifle round still packs more punch:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
783 m/s, 3574J

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
900 m/s, 1807J

So the "Assault Rifle" should be pushed up from 7 to at least 9.

The AK47 round is surprisingly not that more deadly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9739mm
738 m/s, 2,179J

A damage of 11 might work there.  In any case, 7 is not nearly enough.

_ We need a rebalanced the gun system, because how can heavy smg deal 10 damage per shot but for Assault Rifle it's only 7. We don't need to get a Real weapon system in the game, we need balanced weapons. You can make AK-47 hit harder than Charged Rifle, but it should be more expensive and need more ingredients to craft, that's it.

[O Negative]

Most weapons lack balance with one another, so yeah that needs to be fixed... but it would be nice to see more weapons between "industrial" and "spacer" tech.

Something along the lines of neolithic->standard ballistic->magnetic (gauss)->charge (plasma) weapons. I think having a pretty equal amount of variety in that many categories would make the game flow a lot more smoothly, as far as combat goes.

[Drazhya]

My input:

I'd like to see weapon tiers like above: pre-gunpowder, then modern-ish guns, then one or two tiers above that. Each tier with upgrades over everything before it, but no direct upgrades. That is, no weapon (or ranged weapon at least) has literally every stat equal or better than any weapon one tier below it. So kinda like how it currently is (charge rifle is an overall better assault rifle, but with worse range and longer burst, for example).

After that, comparable variants (different modern assault rifles, for example) would be neat.