Banging your head against a wall

[carbon]

There has got to be a relatively simple way to identify items that are low-value, high health and aren't worth punching when you're a raider.

Stone walls not in the home zone, not separating outside from inside and not near anything of value are an obvious example of this.

I don't like complaining, but it seems as though most of the raiders are just for show if half of them can't even be bothered to pretend to kill me.

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[Mr.Cross]

If it makes you feel better, I just started a game with only one colonist who just happened to be an empath, The first major event? a single person raid. The first colonist I get from Randy, during said raid, is another empath with another attacker to boot. the raids spent over a day and a half of bashing the wooden door (and my colonist repairing it) and a couple of the "raiders from the blah- de blah have given up and are leaving" messages. did I finally let my colonists open the door, only to have the Raiders continually beat the door to death before leaving...

I personally think the door did something to genuinely upset and provoke these raiders...

[FMK]

As far as I can tell, (non-sapper) raider logic is basically:
- Pick a target that isn't a wall or door (with a preference to higher value things) and find a path to it.
- If there's no unobstructed path, flip a coin
- If heads, pick a nearby wall
- If tails, pick a nearby door
- Repeat as needed

(It's probably not a 50/50 split, but whatever)

So as it stands, if you want every raider to come fight you without bashing their face against a wall, all you need to do is leave all internal doors leading to unique rooms open, as well as a single external door. Not particularly viable for freezers, but so long as you have a minimal amount of things that can be targeted in them, it's a low chance to matter -- and even then, only for one or two raiders.

Of course, I'm not saying raider AI couldn't do with some improvement, just offering a workaround until then.

[BetaSpectre]

Raiders should use sapper mode a bit more IMO. Though it makes me wonder what's the point of a wall if it can be deconstructed?

[Shurp]

Which takes longer, "deconstruction" or bashing it down?

(In the real world it's faster to beat down a door with a sledgehammer than take it apart)

[carbon]

The really irritating part is that trade caravans think the not base is a trade depot for some reason.

I'm already really short on manpower and I have to walk a quarter of the way across the map to pick up traded items.

[stu89pid]

Raiders should use sapper mode a bit more IMO. Though it makes me wonder what's the point of a wall if it can be deconstructed?

I agree with this. I can setup my killbox so that the raiders walk in front of my 20+ turrets with consistency and almost NEVER take a single shot during a raid. Raids simply do not have the same risk associated with them as, say a infestation or siege.

Now, I'm not saying an infestation or siege is perfect (sniper rifles can safely quash these problems which is a bit of an exploit, but without using a sniper rifle, these force you to put pawns in a position where they can take damage, but more dangerous than a raid.

The only raid where I have to be careful is when centipede mechs with inferno cannons head towards my kill box.

For all other raids, drafting my pawns and putting them behind the turrets will handle the raid easily.

But when raids show up and they decide to break down my walls or mine their way in through the mountain, these are the most fun and require the most input for success.

I'm not sure how to program it specifically, but if raids somehow could evaluate the defenses they will be exposed to using path A vs path B and then consider if they should walk into the killbox or stand on the other end of the base and shoot at the wall until they break in, it would make raids more exciting and dynamic.

[BetaSpectre]

Raiders should use sapper mode a bit more IMO. Though it makes me wonder what's the point of a wall if it can be deconstructed?

I agree with this. I can setup my killbox so that the raiders walk in front of my 20+ turrets with consistency and almost NEVER take a single shot during a raid. Raids simply do not have the same risk associated with them as, say a infestation or siege.

Now, I'm not saying an infestation or siege is perfect (sniper rifles can safely quash these problems which is a bit of an exploit, but without using a sniper rifle, these force you to put pawns in a position where they can take damage, but more dangerous than a raid.

The only raid where I have to be careful is when centipede mechs with inferno cannons head towards my kill box.

For all other raids, drafting my pawns and putting them behind the turrets will handle the raid easily.

But when raids show up and they decide to break down my walls or mine their way in through the mountain, these are the most fun and require the most input for success.

I'm not sure how to program it specifically, but if raids somehow could evaluate the defenses they will be exposed to using path A vs path B and then consider if they should walk into the killbox or stand on the other end of the base and shoot at the wall until they break in, it would make raids more exciting and dynamic.

Sappers are already programmed to do that, IMO instead of sapper EVENTS we could have sappers spread in all raids with a chance of spawning.

[Nelrea]

I think its a bug coz they never use to do this before.

[stu89pid]

Raiders should use sapper mode a bit more IMO. Though it makes me wonder what's the point of a wall if it can be deconstructed?

I agree with this. I can setup my killbox so that the raiders walk in front of my 20+ turrets with consistency and almost NEVER take a single shot during a raid. Raids simply do not have the same risk associated with them as, say a infestation or siege.

Now, I'm not saying an infestation or siege is perfect (sniper rifles can safely quash these problems which is a bit of an exploit, but without using a sniper rifle, these force you to put pawns in a position where they can take damage, but more dangerous than a raid.

The only raid where I have to be careful is when centipede mechs with inferno cannons head towards my kill box.

For all other raids, drafting my pawns and putting them behind the turrets will handle the raid easily.

But when raids show up and they decide to break down my walls or mine their way in through the mountain, these are the most fun and require the most input for success.

I'm not sure how to program it specifically, but if raids somehow could evaluate the defenses they will be exposed to using path A vs path B and then consider if they should walk into the killbox or stand on the other end of the base and shoot at the wall until they break in, it would make raids more exciting and dynamic.

Sappers are already programmed to do that, IMO instead of sapper EVENTS we could have sappers spread in all raids with a chance of spawning.

Yes that's all I'm trying to say, you just did it in many fewer words! All raids should have potential to be "sappers" and they will decide the time it takes to burrow in vs the risk it takes to walk to the front door.

[avilmask]

You can turn suppers into normal raids by shooting at people and luring into entrance, if you have boxes on all sides, where raiders usually come from.

[carbon]

I suppose my original hope was that there would be some sort of "Raiding Heat Map", where roughly 5x5 chunks of map are assigned a "heat" score based on the cumulative value/health scores of their contents.

Each time a raiding job is assigned, the heat map weights results toward areas of maximum impact. Banging fists against a stone wall can actually make a good deal of sense if there is a good deal of gold and plasteel behind it.

The heat scores of objects could be further modified by things like the flammability (wood > stone), electricity usage (lamp > plant pot) and whether the item is a fixed or haul-able item (e.g. x500 pile of gold would be really easy to haul away). There would need to be some bleed over into adjacent heat tiles, so you can't simply move all your valuables 5 tiles away from the exterior and expect to be fine. Traps the faction has already come across would also contribute a negative heat score. Killboxes would rapidly become single-use.

It's possible there is already something like that operating for the sappers, but the more zealous rank-and-file raiders should consult it as well, if maybe not to the same degree.