[1.3-A15] Industrial Rollers 2.5.0 - Free your haulers!

[Ashardalon411]

Faltonico can you put an image of your megaspider's factory and say how you have done for catch them and keep them into ?

[kutch]

Thanks for such a great mod!

Is it possible to setup multiple pull settings, on a puller, to satisfy multiple small stockpiles down the line?  Example: Multiple crafting stations on the same line requires different materials. 

Could setup multiple lines / pullers to handle this but on a large stockpile need many nuke power plants just to power.

[faltonico]

Faltonico can you put an image of your megaspider's factory and say how you have done for catch them and keep them into ?

It is just a big (huge!) cave with a door, nothing especial to hold them, it probably changed on A17, but i think as long as you don't go near them they wont attack you.
Set a puller and pull all of their jelly, you can do that eternally. Some of them will die, if you want the corpses you can set up a killing squad to cull their numbers, or you can set up an oven to kill them by heatstroke. Once they die you can pull them over to a freezer:



Edit: in case you are wondering why i have an electric crematory in there is because that is the accessory freezer, i only carry rotten corpses and raiders there, the insects are only there temporarily.

[Canute]

Could you please make the pullers only pull if the items are on top of a especially constructed tile? I strongly believe it is the way to balance them, because late game, more power is not really an issue, yet you can plop one of those anywhere and suck any resource you want from anyone (raiders included).

I allready suggest this too :-)
historic_os said he is working on an overhaul, lets wait what he is doing. Until then it is up to you not to "cheat" with that :-)
Yeah it is hard not to use the puller as vacuum cleaner, thats why i switched back to hauler bots for more balance.

[Mathyan]

I don't know if RimFridge and Industrial Rollers were compatible before but right now in A17 RimFridge https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32980.0 does not accept insert from rollers or pushers. Seems like they don't recognise fridge as stockpile zone

[Ashardalon411]

good to know, ty !

[historic_os]

I don't know if RimFridge and Industrial Rollers were compatible before but right now in A17 RimFridge https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32980.0 does not accept insert from rollers or pushers. Seems like they don't recognise fridge as stockpile zone

Pushers are compatible with any storage container item in the game and should still be. I went on and tested inserting into RimFridge as well and had no issues. see images below(both mods are at latest version).


Note that only Pushers are able to insert into storage containers, not simple belts.
Pullers should also recognize these storage containers in stockpile settings. however, since these mods dont offer the ability to rename them its hard to keep track on which one is which. thats why the Pullers display a line between the puller and the target when selected.

[Mathyan]

So I need to use red ones to insert. I didn't know that. Used it like this

[historic_os]

Could you please make the pullers only pull if the items are on top of a especially constructed tile?

Is it possible to setup multiple pull settings, on a puller, to satisfy multiple small stockpiles down the line?  Example: Multiple crafting stations on the same line requires different materials.

historic_os said he is working on an overhaul, lets wait what he is doing. Until then it is up to you not to "cheat" with that :-)

Thanks everyone for the Pullers feedback. and as mentioned here before, its been something i was looking to balance for a while.
However, it is hard to determine how balanced a feature is when players play games with lots of mods that obviously effect the balance of this feature.
In this thread alone, there are multiple messages saying Pullers are overpowered and messages saying they are underpowered and consume too much energy. some messages just suggest the teleportation of the items make no sense.

Compared to vanilla, the most similar item to the Puller is the Orbital trade beacon.
The beacon is able to instantly teleport items away from stockpiles to trade ships. It consumes 40W and covers around 170 tiles.
Pullers consume 4.5W per tile(60W min), if they were to cover a stockpile the size of a beacon range they would consume 765W.
If you look at Pullers that way, you could say they are far from balanced and far from overpowered.

Don't get me wrong, i dont mind changing Pullers, im all into that. however, there are some key factors needed to be taken into account -
1. The mod is already hard to learn, adding something that could be confusing. for example, multiple pulling settings opposed to just placing multiple pullers. may end up making the mod harder to use.
2. Changes that will hurt game performance. I already dedicated multiple changes to improve performance, including removal of features that weren't required. we already know late game Rimworld especially modded tends to suffer from performance issues.

semi off topic this is, by the way, the reason why items on belts are set to "jump" from belt to belt instead of smoothly moving - making the smooth eye candy transition effect between belt means making smaller more frequent transitions. imagine each transition between belt making a UI update 10 times instead of one time.

Adding a specific tile that can be pulled from or something like a beacons that has to be chained and placed next to a Puller means having to scan these additions to discover the ground they cover each time Puller needs to perform and then searching in it. or alternatively, caching the data and reacquiring it each time a construction change happens. both not ideal for the game performance.
while you could avoid that by setting a static range, id much rather having the mod flexible and not limit original builds.

3. Save-game compatibility. even if the perfect solution is found, it is most likely to force players to rebuild, redesign or have the systems not working all out of a sudden. therefore, even if the best solution is found, id rather hold that change for when a new alpha is introduced and players are forced to make new games. currently, there are 20k players on steam that automatically gets updates pushed to them and id hate messing up their game.

Again, i really appreciate all the love to the mod and the feedback and always looking for balance ideas! (especially Pullers)
Thanks!

[historic_os]

So I need to use red ones to insert. I didn't know that. Used it like this

Yep, red ones. Pullers(blue) are from pulling from a stockpile to a belt.

P.S. nice animal area you have there:)
last time i tried automated animal feeding area i ended up letting 100 fert eggs hatch in a 3x3 with a pusher to feed them hay and a puller to fetch the eggs (don't call PETA please).

[Mathyan]

This is just to start the farm. Later on I will split chicks from roosters.

[Canute]

historic_os,
about the puller balance.
Yes the power useage balance it abit, but that only count for perma on status.
But for outdoor puller you don't need to keep them perma on. You just flick them on after a fight/event to scoop all the remains. And for this use just 3-6 full batteries are enough.
And when the player want remove the power cost a bit he just create stockpiles around the stuff instead the whole outdoor area.
You can even scoop the stuff from a siege raid while they stiff build up their outpost.
Thats why i want that you limit the pusher/puller link to buildable stockpiles floors/pad/box/crates.

[Famous Shoes]

In the spirit of friendly debate: I feel you (historic_os) have found a good compromise with the current puller balancing. I think focusing your time and energy on blocking players looking to exploit the system, especially given the current state of vanilla, would be at worst futile, at best provide a little more fun to some and none to most. Instead, how about some underground belts? Perhaps some splitters too. And trains. (I jest of course, but should the mood strike you, undergrounds or splitters would be awesome, in yellow, red, and blue of course!)

One issue to report, the plumbing from Dub's Hygiene and Central Heating block the belts, someone else already reported this for RedistHeat and I assume it's the same thing. In builds with Dub's, plumbing tends to run all over the place, making Dub's + Rollers a tough combination. Maybe there's something we can change about those mods in our local installs to make them not block?

[historic_os]

@Famous Shoes
Splitters and underground belts are components i already have planned for future updates. unfortunately, due to time limitations, I can't find myself working on these new features currently.
I wish i could spare more time for it, these are just 2 components out of about 6 features i have on stand-by at the moment.

Trains would be amazing! however, out of scope of this mod. I wish i could spare time for developing such mod.
plus, i dont think my poor art skills can handle such task
it would be cool if someone decided to work on something like that and add transport trains into the game.
with each container being set as a storage building you could even use industrial rollers to set Factorio style load\unload stations!

Regarding the bug: due to the way Rimworld is built, All these mods (Industrial Rollers, Dub's Hygiene, Central Heating, RedisHeat) are forced to use the same method to implement these components (based on power conduit) there are only so many ways to have a building placed on the same tile.
while it is annoying, im not sure if theres anything we can do about it(any of the mods). however! underground rollers would be a perfect solution to this conflict


@Canute, honestly, I agree with both sides, i don't think the Pullers are overpowered. but i do think they can be abused.
maybe the best solution is to use the mod settings and adding "hardcore mode" option to reduce the distance pullers pull from, make them only work in-door or only where floors exist.

[historic_os]

Update!
Teamed up with Kiame to bring you the ability to rename fridges and Pullers the ability to properly show the fridges names!

This feature was long requested, get the latest version of both Industrial Rollers and RimFridge.
latest version link in main post.