[A15] Ancestral Spirits - ALPHA

[MinutesToWeekend]

Just a quick question.
Is it possible to kill visiting ancestors in game? If yeah, can they be butchered into some kind of op leather and op meat and what are the consenquences?

If you can I'd like to hear about how you did it. I wanted to make them unharmable because they're ghosts! but I couldn't figure out how to cleanly do it. I ended up just jacking their resistances up really high and shot a few rockets at them and they took no damage, so they *should* be effectively invincible.

They won't drop leather, either, if you somehow manage to kill them. Because they're ghosts.

Thinking about it more I could override the right-click menu so you can't force-attack them, and...maybe somehow remove them from the AI targeting list? Hmm.

[jmababa]

Hey, i havent tried out this mod yet but had a few questions.

How does impressiveness, space, wealth and beaty contribute to the mood of the spirit? I kind of feel like this will make the game very hard because of 2 reasons.
1. if you make a shrine that is beatiful and wealthy with art etc. you lure stronger raiders to you. Either your spirits smite is enough to take care of them or well... you die as 20 raiders with energy weapons go against your tribe with clubs and bows.

2. if you do NOT  built a nice shrine, you displease the spirits which lead to diseases, bad weather ,heatwaves etc, which can easily wipe out your tribe.

I think its a cool idea, but needs some fine tuning.either by tweaking the numbers of the above problem, or by adding weapons(magic wands?), armor, or "divine blessings" that give extra protection or accuracy or make your colonist work faster etc.0

Get the medieval mod this goes very well with this shrine haha now you have a Greek tribe. don't mess with the Envoy of the Gods you don't want the wrath of Zeus.

[Tammabanana]

I'm so excited to play this!

Reporting in briefly with a suboptimal event - I got an Ancestral Visit on the very first night of the new colony, and they are so not impressed by my meager efforts that they keep leaving, over and over again. I'm not even sure they spawn before they leave?

I see something in the output log about a fire? I haven't built a campfire yet, if that's relevant.

(Edit #1: forgot that I should test it without the other mods I'm using. It is still happening when this is the only mod installed. Updating the attached output_log.text file to be one with just this mod.)

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

[MinutesToWeekend]

I'm so excited to play this!

Reporting in briefly with a suboptimal event - I got an Ancestral Visit on the very first night of the new colony, and they are so not impressed by my meager efforts that they keep leaving, over and over again. I'm not even sure they spawn before they leave?

I see something in the output log about a fire? I haven't built a campfire yet, if that's relevant.

(Edit #1: forgot that I should test it without the other mods I'm using. It is still happening when this is the only mod installed. Updating the attached output_log.text file to be one with just this mod.)

Whoops. That's a bug. What's happening is you haven't build a Shrine yet, so they're trying to spawn in on a non-existent Shrine and everything goes sideways. When I tested the very first thing I always did was build a Shrine...

I'll put up a fix shortly.

E: New tag, https://github.com/MoyTW/MTW_AncestorSpirits/releases/tag/v0.1c

+ Update README with compatibility, install info
+ Fix NPE for visits with no anchors
+ Add 7-day grace period for No-Shrine visit penalties
+ Remove extra Cloth & Wood costs for Shrine

[Tammabanana]

Yay, thanks!

With the cloth requirements removed from the shrine, I was able to build it late the first day, and the ancestors visited the second day.

All my ancestors are naked and look fairly solid instead of ghostly; is that intended at this stage of development? I'm running fairly heavily modded in this game, so it could be a conflict; I haven't fiddled with testing that yet, because I want to see what else the ancestors do... and also I got an advantageous map, soooo, I'm keeping it for now. I'll report in again with better details when I've screwed up the control part of the experiment less.

[Wishmaster]

Not working for new savegame. I get errors when my pawns try to do vanilla actions like playing horseshoes or when I try to get room informations: the window is blank and I get errors in log.

Here is a sample of the log for that latest:

Code Select Expand

Exception processing alert RimWorld.Alert_TatteredApparel: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MTW_AncestorSpirits.RoomRoleWorker_ShrineRoom.GetScore (Verse.Room room) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Room.<UpdateRoomStatsAndRole>m__641 (Verse.RoomRoleDef x) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GenCollection.MaxBy[RoomRoleDef,Single] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 selector, IComparer`1 comparer) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GenCollection.MaxBy[RoomRoleDef,Single] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 selector) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

I am using faction discovery, tried to load both before and after but I get the same bugs.

[MinutesToWeekend]

All my ancestors are naked and look fairly solid instead of ghostly; is that intended at this stage of development?

Yeah, unfortunately. It's on the to-do list!

Not working for new savegame.

I'll take a look, thanks!

[Tammabanana]

Yeah, unfortunately. It's on the to-do list!

Cool! I won't worry about that, then.

[MinutesToWeekend]

Not working for new savegame. I get errors when my pawns try to do vanilla actions like playing horseshoes or when I try to get room informations: the window is blank and I get errors in log.

Here is a sample of the log for that latest:

Code Select Expand

Exception processing alert RimWorld.Alert_TatteredApparel: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at MTW_AncestorSpirits.RoomRoleWorker_ShrineRoom.GetScore (Verse.Room room) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.Room.<UpdateRoomStatsAndRole>m__641 (Verse.RoomRoleDef x) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GenCollection.MaxBy[RoomRoleDef,Single] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 selector, IComparer`1 comparer) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0
  at Verse.GenCollection.MaxBy[RoomRoleDef,Single] (IEnumerable`1 source, System.Func`2 selector) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

I am using faction discovery, tried to load both before and after but I get the same bugs.

If you could provide more details on what happened here, such as what other mods if any you have running, and the output.log file (found at \RimWorld\RimWorldWin_Data) that would be extremely helpful. I couldn't figure out how to reproduce this issue locally, so I don't have a solid understanding of what happened.

That said I do have a very vague idea of what might work so I put up a patch here https://github.com/MoyTW/MTW_AncestorSpirits/releases/tag/v0.1c-hotfix-1 that you can try it out, though no assurances on whether it works.

[Wishmaster]

Here is a complete log with random errors (I just played a minute with an existing game...) and my mod list in load order.

Code Select Expand

Core
HP Lovecraft Storyteller v1.1b A15
VerifyStart
Refactored Work Priorities
Hand Me That Brick
BetterPawnControl
CraftingHysteresis
FluffierThanThou-RW_Blueprints-9cbe574
FluffierThanThou-RW_EnhancedTabs-f5e58d9
FluffierThanThou-RW_Manager-ae03913
HaulingHysteresis
PetFollow
QualityBuilder
TechAdvancing
VeinMiner
747313773
AllowTool
Better Pathfinding
DoIT
kNumbers-0.5.2-A15
AMC(1) DE Surgeries
AMC(1) ExpandedProsthetics&OrganEngineering
AMC(2) ADogSaid
AMC(2) Chemicals & Neutroamine
AMC(2) EmergencyTreatment
AMC(2) Improved Surgery
AMC(2) Medical Training
AMC(2) Realistic Medical System EPOE Version
AMC(3) Compatibility patch_ADog & ISurgery
AMC(3) Compatibility patch_DESurgery & ISurgery
AMC(3) Compatibility patch_EPOE & ISurgery
AMC(4) Compatibility patch_EPOE Realiistic Medical & ISurgery
ED-LaserDrill
ED-ShieldsBasic
Call of Cthulhu - Neutral Factions V1.5 A15
JTBetterHauling
JTMoreHydroponicOptions
JTReplaceWalls
Miscellaneous_Core
Miscellaneous_Incidents
Miscellaneous_MapGenerator
Reasonable Lamps
RTGs
RT_Fuse-A15-1.0.2
RT_PowerSwitch-A15-1.0.2
RT_QuantumStorage-A15-1.0.5
RT_SolarFlareShield-A15-1.0.5
Storage-Crates-a15c-v1.15.3a
StorageSearch-0.15.1.3
TradingPlus
TradingSpot
RW_FacialStuff-0.15.3
Recycle
Rimworld_IndustrialRoller
Miniaturisation
Miscellaneous_Robots
Modular Tables
RimWorld-Achtung-Mod-master
Bulk_Meals
DayNightSwitch
LT_DoorMat
Stonecutting Tweak
Hospitality
Call of Cthulhu - Industrial Age V1.0d A15
Call of Cthulhu - Cosmic Horrors V1.3f A15
RemoteExplosives
No_Mood_Loss_Prisoner_Sold_or_Died
Organthoughts
Furnace
RedistHeat
ThermoelectricGenerator
Faction Discovery
MTW_AncestorSpirits-0.1c-hotfix-1
MTW_AncestorsHospitalityCompatibility-master

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]

[Tammabanana]

If you can I'd like to hear about how you did it. I wanted to make them unharmable because they're ghosts! but I couldn't figure out how to cleanly do it. I ended up just jacking their resistances up really high and shot a few rockets at them and they took no damage, so they *should* be effectively invincible.

They won't drop leather, either, if you somehow manage to kill them. Because they're ghosts.

Thinking about it more I could override the right-click menu so you can't force-attack them, and...maybe somehow remove them from the AI targeting list? Hmm.

I had a couple of manhunter events, in which I hid my colonists behind the walls... but my fearless ancestors wandered outside. They got attacked by a tiger (from the CK animal/plant pack mod, ~18dps) and a barbslinger (Alpha animals, also high dps). It took me a few minutes to realize they were out there and being attacked. They didn't die, but they did go down to like 99980/99999 on the mouseover text. They were "Melee attacking" their aggressor, but not doing any damage.

I sent a ranged colonist to kill the tiger, but she missed once and also hit the ancestor, and the ancestor picked up the "Harmed me" dislike of that colonist.

For the barbslinger, I sent a couple of melee guys instead. Once they started beating up on the barbslinger, it turned its attention to them, and the ancestor... just walked away, la dee da, nothing happening here. And then the barbslinger downed the colonists, so that'll teach me to try to come to my beloved ancestors' defense.

I came away with the following impressions -

• That was pretty funny, but probably not aligned with intentions.
• I kind of like that they're not doing any damage; that seems appropriate for a ghost. It's like their wiggling their fingers in front of the manhunter's face and cooing, I'm not touching you!
• But it would also be kinda cool if the spirits could have spirit weapons, and smite whatever attacks them if they feel like it. They should probably only feel like it if they like you a lot, though. Craftable spirit weapons, late game?
• But they are taking damage, and they are standing there and letting the manhunter hold them in one place, and they're not getting bored with it. I like the idea of maybe having them non-targetable. Some other maybe-options - flee instead of fight? Can they choose to walk away after toying with the beast for a while? Retreat to their anchor so they don't have to deal with this nonsense? Restrict them to the Home area?
• The ghosts' "Harmed me" could use a flavor edit, maybe? Getting shot with an arrow shouldn't have really hurt a ghost, but I could see being highly offended by it anyway. Unless some ghosts get a masochist-like rush out of not actually getting hurt anymore.
• I did see their 99980/99999 rising again afterwards, so they're healing. I think I saw the "In pain" mood debuff, and they did get multiple Crack hediffs. I haven't figured out hediffs yet, so maybe I'm about to spout nonsense - is Crack what happens as a result of making the body part solid? Is there a way to make a flag that is analogous to"solid", but more like "incorporeal", and translate the "Crack"'s effect on that flag into something like "Haha, you can't touch me"? Or maybe - "Wisplike shred", as though a tiny bit of foggy ghost-substance has been detached? Maybe a tattered-clothes-like mood debuff if they get too many? (No idea if that's even possible, just brainstorming.)

An unrelated observation - I prayed for rain once and the ancestors didn't hear/ignored me. It would also be cool if the ancestors were to outright insult you, if their displeasure is high enough. (I think mine may have been pretty high at the time, I lost like 16 magic at the turn of that first season.)

Another unrelated observation - my people are Tribal, but the Ancestors are showing up with colonist-type backstories, like Math prof and Geneticist. Which is kind of cool; suggests that my tribe is descended from the survivors of previous Rimworld crashes. That might be something to play with - older Ancestors getting colonist backstories, but if the player is a tribe, making the backstories gradually reflect more and more tribal culture as the ancestors' ages creep closer to this generation? Again, no idea if that's even possible.

[MinutesToWeekend]

Here is a complete log with random errors (I just played a minute with an existing game...) and my mod list in load order.

That's a lot of mods.

Thanks for the debug log! I think it's due to a *sigh* Hospitality conflict which I'm going to try and reproduce and fix.

[A Cool Story]
...
I came away with the following impressions -

• That was pretty funny, but probably not aligned with intentions.
• I kind of like that they're not doing any damage; that seems appropriate for a ghost. It's like their wiggling their fingers in front of the manhunter's face and cooing, I'm not touching you!
• But it would also be kinda cool if the spirits could have spirit weapons, and smite whatever attacks them if they feel like it. They should probably only feel like it if they like you a lot, though. Craftable spirit weapons, late game?
• But they are taking damage, and they are standing there and letting the manhunter hold them in one place, and they're not getting bored with it. I like the idea of maybe having them non-targetable. Some other maybe-options - flee instead of fight? Can they choose to walk away after toying with the beast for a while? Retreat to their anchor so they don't have to deal with this nonsense? Restrict them to the Home area?
• The ghosts' "Harmed me" could use a flavor edit, maybe? Getting shot with an arrow shouldn't have really hurt a ghost, but I could see being highly offended by it anyway. Unless some ghosts get a masochist-like rush out of not actually getting hurt anymore.
• I did see their 99980/99999 rising again afterwards, so they're healing. I think I saw the "In pain" mood debuff, and they did get multiple Crack hediffs. I haven't figured out hediffs yet, so maybe I'm about to spout nonsense - is Crack what happens as a result of making the body part solid? Is there a way to make a flag that is analogous to"solid", but more like "incorporeal", and translate the "Crack"'s effect on that flag into something like "Haha, you can't touch me"? Or maybe - "Wisplike shred", as though a tiny bit of foggy ghost-substance has been detached? Maybe a tattered-clothes-like mood debuff if they get too many? (No idea if that's even possible, just brainstorming.)

An unrelated observation - I prayed for rain once and the ancestors didn't hear/ignored me. It would also be cool if the ancestors were to outright insult you, if their displeasure is high enough. (I think mine may have been pretty high at the time, I lost like 16 magic at the turn of that first season.)

Another unrelated observation - my people are Tribal, but the Ancestors are showing up with colonist-type backstories, like Math prof and Geneticist. Which is kind of cool; suggests that my tribe is descended from the survivors of previous Rimworld crashes. That might be something to play with - older Ancestors getting colonist backstories, but if the player is a tribe, making the backstories gradually reflect more and more tribal culture as the ancestors' ages creep closer to this generation? Again, no idea if that's even possible.

That's pretty hilarious! It's kind of unintentional, and kind of not.

Ancestors are coded to occasionally tour the *outside* of the colony. The reason for this is to ensure you can't just lock up wall up your Shrine when they visit and thereby prevent them from seeing the horrifying Corpse Fields just outside of your colony, but as a side-effect they'll let Manhunters in. That seems hilarious so I think I'll just keep in. Thinking about it now actually could just wall up your Shrine because I never ended up getting around to implementing the malus for not being able to tour. Hmm. Well that's on the to-do list now.

In terms on Ancestors taking damage, I've fixed that completely on my local and they can no longer take damage. At all. I'm going to try and also edit their behaviours so that if they get attacked by something that's insultable, they'll fight back by constantly insulting them and if the enemy isn't vulnerable to that (mechanoids, animals) they'll just ignore them.

Losing 16 magic is a lot of magic loss! I was trying to go for more around +- 6, so 16 magic means that either they showed up while your colony was on fire and dead people everywhere or I've mis-tuned the numbers.

As far as backstories go, I didn't pay any attention to those at all and, uh, for some reason just never noticed that they show up with colonist backstories. Tunnel vision, I guess. I'll probably end up changing them all to tribal just for consistency eventually.

[Wishmaster]

I had another issue that happens only with hospitality loaded.
When loading a savegame, it says you don't have shrine.

I figure out that the "spawners" list is not loaded properly from the file. If I save the game after building a shrine, the  list is present. But if I load and save again, the list is empty.

[MinutesToWeekend]

I had another issue that happens only with hospitality loaded.
When loading a savegame, it says you don't have shrine.

I figure out that the "spawners" list is not loaded properly from the file. If I save the game after building a shrine, the  list is present. But if I load and save again, the list is empty.

Is this happening with *only* Hospitality + Ancestors + Compatibility? I looked at the error log and attempted to reproduce the issue by downloading a bunch of mods and starting a new game, saving, quitting and loading, but I can't get it to reproduce locally. When I have only the above 3 it seems to work fine for me. Also I added all the mods I could identify and track down from your list (I have no idea what DoIT is and Google isn't really helpful) and started a new game, saved, loaded, couldn't get the NPE for the RoomWorker. I suspect it has something to do with injecting it into a running game combined with some spooky mod interaction.

Thanks for the report, but unfortunately I'm at a loss as for how to fix your issue there.

[MinutesToWeekend]

New tag up: https://github.com/MoyTW/MTW_AncestorSpirits/releases/tag/v0.1d

Doesn't fix whatever issues the mod has with Wishmaster's game, but it does include some improvements to the Ancestor pawns:

+ Make Ancestors look ghostly
+ Make Ancestors completely immune to all forms of attack
+ Disable Ancestor reactions to melee attackers