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Poll

Trump won. now what?

booooo yeahhhhhhhhhhhh
- 4 (8.2%)
****
- 8 (16.3%)
Americans, why.just why.
- 15 (30.6%)
It could have been worse.
- 8 (16.3%)
When is the next ship to a Rimworld? It is safer there....
- 14 (28.6%)

Total Members Voted: 34


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Author Topic: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath  (Read 4969 times)

billycop32

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United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« on: November 22, 2016, 01:18:18 AM »

so.... here we are. this poll is aimed to be more funny then a full poll, but feel free to suggest additional options.
Personally, I'm glad we got trump over Hillary, but that was one bitter horse pill to swallow. how do you feel?

also, on a side debate: do you really think California will try to leave the union? could we really separate?

remember, play nice, you can always take those negative emotions and sick em on your vict.....colonists.
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Listen1

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2016, 11:02:17 AM »

The first Debate:

Since I'm not from USA, i'm sad Trump won, because the dollar will rise. If the oposite were to happen, the dollar would plunge and I would be able to purchase things in Amazon/Ebay.

On the Secound debate:

Nah, USA States are already really really independant compared to other places in the world. I doubt that even the idea will last.

Vas

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 01:16:18 PM »

Trump and Hillary could have lead to war.  Trump WANTS nuclear war, while Hillary is just someone who might present problems that would piss off Russia.  However Russia has an intelligent sane leader who won't just start nuclear war just because.

Trump wants to lower education funding, health care, kill millions, and nuke some country.
Hillary wants to improve education, health care, save lives, and promotes green clean energy.

When I say trump wants to kill millions, I say this because he heavily supports Oil Fracking.  You know those earth quakes in Oklahoma?  That are getting worse and more frequent.  Thats because of Oil Fracking, which is also happening in Texas now right under a big city.  All of Dallas is going to die.  Many people in Dallas are going to die.  Thanks to Oil Fracking, and Trump wants it to be increased, more oil fracking means more death.  So long as the oil companies get rich, right?  Who gives a fuck about human life, so long as someone gets rich and the poor die!

Yea, so glad Trump won.  Now we can all die because he destabilized the land and caused the Yellowstone volcano to blow killing everyone who didn't die from oil fracking.  Trump leads to mass death for absolute certain.
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mumblemumble

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 05:25:17 PM »

the idea of California being separate is both scary, and funny.  Cali would not be able to do much I feel, and would absolutely fall into a 3rd world shit hole in a decade if it did, but Hollywood wont allow that I figure (unless they gate it off and make it guarded or some crap)

Cali is already pretty bad, especially with the idea that people are pushing (did it pass? I forgot) where it makes it physically impossible to NOT get your highschool diploma... which means high school diplomas will have almost no value besides the paper and ink.

Add onto that, Oregon and Washington (I live in Washington, God save me) have talked about joining, and THAT terrifies me, as both states are pretty liberal, so the entire new "state" would be very liberal....this would fall apart with time, I'm sure, but its still a scary thought.

Worst part of this election, tbh is now I've been noticing a lot more... tension....between people. Unwanted tension. The night of the election, I worked with a black guy during the day (he was friendly), then the night after the results, he mean mugged me on the street and asked me why the hell I was outside, when I was running to the store.... Kinda messed up. I only hope eventually BLM and those folks are silenced, the propaganda that white people inheriently hate black people is extremely unproductive... and if such kinda talk / actions keeps going on, backlash is inevitable. I dont want backlash, but its just the reality, you can only have talk about "white people need to die" by people so much, before people get tired of it. Doesn't help in debates in colleges I've literally seen people say "kill yourself, white guy" as an argument about white privilage, and them not get kicked out.

...honestly I hope racial tensions cool down ASAP. I hate this kinda BS.

As for trump and fracking, ill take earthquakes over cancer causing GMO foods Hilary was wanting to bring in.
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Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 07:03:15 PM »

Only a few words from my end:

I just hope all of this doesn't affect me that much as an non-US citizen. I just hope that Trump keeps backpedalling on all of the issues like he's doing at the moment. Pretty good and optimistic tbh. For example, I like that he now backpedalled on Global Warming and he seems to have hinted that he accepts that humans are responsible for it. Good in my book. Good for earth.

Other than that, I don't like how Trump's win affected the social tensions in the US and it honestly scares me.

There are some people who feel like their racism is now warranted and legitimized and I honestly don't like it. I just hope that in the end of the day, violence and bias against minorities will not rise, I will always be optimistic. The amount of vitriol that has come to light from all sides of the political spectrum has made me pretty sad too. That isn't how politics should be and this whole election was a mess. Not just because of Trump, but the whole DNC scandal included.
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mumblemumble

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 08:12:17 PM »

Just something to consider, racial tensions are not caused by trump per-say, but by people who do not understand his policies (OH NOES! THEY IS DEPORTING ALL MEXICANS, EVEN LEGAL IMMIGRANTS!) and the media which blasts him...  but the biggest culprit is honestly BLM and sjws, thankfully many black people are now having the courage to speak out against those hippocrits, even when BLM threatens violence against any black person who disagrees with them often.

its so bad, because so many completely baseless ideas are being taken as fact by so many, which, if you believe it, OF COURSE you would be hostile!

Good news is, for all the damage to race relations which BLM does, theres repairs done by when a white / black person can have an honest talk about BLM, and the Hippocracy. That, and theres honest, 2 way dialog done with that often too, which is something which hasn't been done in years, at least on a public dialog scale.

Another thing to keep in mind skissor, MANY people differentiate between black people and black THUGS, so I think overall "racism" wont increase as much as you think(At least, not poor treatment of all black people, but I admit people being wary about black people on the street has gone up, particularly with the protests, and violence), but retaliations against THUGS certainly will...and I hold no sorrow in saying that, thugs who steal, deal drugs, mug people, and deal with prostitution are the scorn of the earth imo, and I have no pity for them making such decisions...humanity is voluntary, after all.

So, no...for black people who hold good lives, who aren't up to no good, who aren't thugs, I don't see this being a problem....if anything, I've seen decent black / white folks get along better now than before, but this might just be my own personal experience...the thugs, and the ignorant however, well... Their treatment is often self inflicted with how they act, and the sooner those people realize their ACTIONS earn them such treatment, the sooner society can improve.

...I could go on, even make an entire THREAD on race, or specifically, the American "black" dynamic, but I don't feel like dealing with people agitated on my opinion. Not around thanksgiving at least
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Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

psionicmushroom

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2016, 06:37:37 PM »

In the spirit of a two way discussion and, as per your signature, asking questions, what specifically differentiates between black people and black "THUGS"? Can there be white "THUGS"? You mentioned that black "THUGS" who commit crimes deserve any race based violence they receive. Why do black criminals deserve to face the vigilante "retaliation" you mention in addition to the consequences imposed on them by the US justice system, when vigilante action against convicted white criminals is illegal?
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mumblemumble

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2016, 05:31:52 AM »

In the spirit of a two way discussion and, as per your signature, asking questions, what specifically differentiates between black people and black "THUGS"? Can there be white "THUGS"? You mentioned that black "THUGS" who commit crimes deserve any race based violence they receive. Why do black criminals deserve to face the vigilante "retaliation" you mention in addition to the consequences imposed on them by the US justice system, when vigilante action against convicted white criminals is illegal?
thugs, of any race, are brutish, criminal, immoral people who damage society thought their actions, typically with no good intention and extreme callousness and selfishness.

I mention "black" thugs because frankly, in america, there is a very strange occurance where thug culture is EXTREMELY prominent in the black community, and even refered to as "just being black", by black thugs.  This is multi demensional as a problem, because first, they are thugs, but second, this cultural attitude shuns and treats bad any black person who goes AGAINST this. Black kids who do well in school, speak well, or follow the law strictly are looked at as "not black enough" or "trying to be white" or "an uncle tom". This makes it exceedingly hard to escape it, and also leads to a MUCH higher rate of thuggery than most other races.

Quite simply, the black thug dynamic is a bit of an epidemic....and the prison system does jack shit. Many criminals of all races choose to get arrested, for a hot meal, visiting friends, and often getting to have sex with whoever they enslaved in the jail.  And frankly, I believe with gang activity murders, it should be a mandatory execution.... some people just AREN'T fit to benefit society at all.

Speaking of which, hope trumps efforts mean gay sex will be banned from jails, this will mean they can finally crack down on rape...something that, even with PREA never really got solved.
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Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

psionicmushroom

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2016, 09:17:36 AM »

Have you ever met a thug? like actually known them? I'm not sure I've ever met anyone who is entirely brutish, criminal, and immoral for the sake of being brutish, criminal, and immoral. Also, do you have evidence for your claim that criminals commit crimes so that they can go to prison?
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mumblemumble

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2016, 07:45:42 PM »

I never said JUST to be brutish, the motive is selfishness, with a complete lack of sympathy for others.

Only an awful person will :
-go around an beat up people for fun (knockout game, look it up)
-be UN-nessecarily cruel to animals (punt cats like balls)
-be unpleasant and rude for literally no reason, other than for "fun" or irritating strangers
-act completely removed from society, saying their actions don't matter, and expecting others to cater to them; essentially, inability to "put the shoe on the other foot".

and yes, I have met MANY thugs, and its always a chore to deal with...pompous, arrogant, very aggressive at criticism, ect, and the culture surrounding the black community really doesn't help, where being a "thug" is glamorized, and being a college student whos no-nonsense is demonized as "being a punk bitch" or "being white".

maybe where you are from, the culture is radically different (im from the united states) but these guys, thugs in general are a pain in the ass.

if its any consolation, If there was a black, white, asian, mexican, and native American thug all doing the same crime, I think they should ALL get the same punishment, even if that's execution for monstrous behavior like murdering children. The only thing is, some groups have more thugs than others, statistically.

As for people going intentionally...

http://www.oddee.com/item_98692.aspx
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Homeless-and-hungry-man-prefers-a-jail-cell-4213734.php
http://www.prisontalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-384002.html

I do agree a MASSIVE part of it is there being no real rehabilitation in the states.  But also, theres often little opportunity, or opportunity which is hard to get. Especially with felonies, its life ruining, and it sort of forces people into crime to survive, which grows more crime. Sex offending also needs reform, as I REALLY think there should be tiers of it... consensual sex with a girlfriend in highschool whom is slightly under age is RADICALLY different than straight up child molestation, and flat out forcing rape on someone is radically different than forcing yourself on your wife, and her calling the police (if 2 people are married, this is more of a civil issue, assuming it is not violent.). I think their should be tiers, and transparancy to what happened.  often people who get out-skirted on the very fringe of the sex offender registry (indecent exposure for streaking, or pissing in public) get treated as the worst, and its not uncommon for this to ALSO ruin lives, far worse than felonies.

This, I think needs to be addressed, as does "minimum sentences" for stuff... in a lot of cases people do things, and while guilty, it was nowhere NEAR as bad as it could of been, but large minimum sentences make it kind of difficult. Judges should be allowed to do their job.

I also think we should bring corporal punishment back for more severe crimes... mugged an old lady, giving her a hospitalization? 50 lashings.

In summary, what would fix america, IMO...
-more opportunity for felons to get housing, work, ect....a felon is more likely to reoffend if they cannot get jobs or housing. Thus, felons are less likely to slip into "careers of crime" due to no other options
-execution / corperal punishment of unrehabilitatable criminals, whom are just sadistic or cannot be made safe (with 1 year waiting period to seek improvement)
-Fix ghetto culture (criminalize attacking straight lace students as a hate crime, use conscious media efforts to show that culture is NOT ok. Would need to be focused on appropriate demographics.)
-make jails not just "punish", but attempt to fix WHY someone committed the crime. Make charges less if the cause if addressed.
-Provide a baseline of healthcare for free, in poverty stricken areas (this is getting paid for in jails anyway...)
-Criminalize sex in jail, to eliminate the possibility of rape... PREA (prison rape elimination act) exists, but does almost nothing, because its too easy to CLAIM someone consented to it. This would, over time, make prison rape extremely unlikely, especially if combined with corporal punishment. Some may say this is unfair to gays, but if your in jail, you aren't there to enjoy yourself having sex, now ARE you?
-Sex offender registry overhauled, for more details, and different rules for different tiers.

maybe a few other things, but yeah...these things would drastically change Americas crime issues. Because the system IS broken over here....

EDIT: in respect of mods, if I get any more questions, I will make a new topic...I know off topic, even IN off topic is a problem.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 09:53:29 PM by mumblemumble »
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Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

RickyMartini

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2016, 05:09:44 AM »

Did you just suggest that marital rape should not be reported to the police?
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isistoy

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 05:43:50 AM »

That he just did. At least, that was my understanding too.
Politics really shouldn't be a discussion topic, in these forums...
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mumblemumble

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2016, 06:42:04 AM »

lets dissect what the word means, real quick....  it means sex without consent.

So quite literally, a husband having sex with his wife while she sleeps is "rape", if he didn't get explicit permission first. But we must ask, where does the harm arise from in rape typically?

Typically, it its from trauma of force (physically or emotionally), humiliation, or an intimate relationship being forced where it isn't wanted, risk of STDs, risk of pregnancy

Married couples are generally accepting of the idea of sex with each other, so the intimate relationship idea is not a problem...as well, if its not forceful or brutal, its not traumatic that way.... but assuming sex is something which happens normally, a single time done without consent for that time, and not due to pain, is sparsely traumatic, and more of an annoyance. STD and pregnancy are also less of an issue (or non issue) because intimacy is already there.

So yes, in situations where its simply a verbal no (or lack of yes), no physical fighting, no pain, ect, and the couple are married...I think its no more an issue than the wife signing up for an event the husband didnt want to go to (concert, or whathaveyou) and dragging the husband along when he bitches and moans.

Another thing to figure is the comparison of damage done by the offense, and damage done by the charge...damage done by THIS circumstance of "rape" is extremely minimal, and marriage can go on fine with this being forgotten, assuming its non violent, no damage is done, ect...identical to lovemaking, only with one party not REALLY up for it at the time, maybe wanting to get back to sleep in the moment, but otherwise safe and fine.

However, for the police getting called? Well....
-husband gets rape charges, and is on sex offender listing. This alone can destroy careers, and make the stability of the house shatter
-family is immediately fragmented
-children lose their father for a long time
-Income is potentially lost
-man has permanent marking, which causes immense family friction
-Kids may have their relationships with mother / father ruined.

And in this case, it sounds to me like the risks of doing punishment in this SPECIFIC case, astronomically outweigh the benefits.

Reminder, this is only for non violent versions, but still.

I address everything with this, what are the pros and cons, and the pros and cons for punishing marital, non violent rape seem rather 1 sided. As said, it should be a CIVIL issue, for the 2 to talk out and understand, and keep the law out unless there's violence. A husband and wife can easily come to let go a night like that, and come to an understanding, but picking up the pieces of rape charges is almost impossible. Its just prioritizing which is most important, I guess.

And no, rape isn't just about power, sometimes its legit someone is horny, wants a release, and doesn't acknowlege a refusal. The idea that rape is only sadistic is silly, it can be, but isn't always.... if it was, our sex drive would immediately cease if someone said no, unless we were "sick bastards". But, a no doesn't IMMEDIATELY cease it, instead we are left with a decision of how to respond. Usually its acknowledged, and ESPECIALLY outside marriage / relationships it must be obeyed, but as intimacy and connection is established, post sex, dictations and rules / laws / punishments should be dealt with INTERNALLY, to minimize internal damage and maintain cohesion of a unit, just like how good friends might have disagreements, maybe even get violent in a bad circumstance, but don't want to call the cops because they want the situation RESOLVED, not MADE WORSE.

And well, all the problems that go with a non violent rape being "reported" far outweigh the damage done by the night, and resolution could be as simple as "honey, can you let me get sleep when im tired next time?" or something like that... and I think both parties, if they are honest, would prefer that.


EDIT: its actually quite comparable to theft, in the context of how much social "finance" has been built. Similar to in rimworld, 2 people in rimworld might be best friends, suffer an incident (accidently killing another friend) and while it causes tension, the social finance balances it out. In  reality, stealing say a strangers food in their house is bad, but if they are best buds or whatever, it might be irritating, but understandable if trust is already there, as the friendship is more important than the theft of a SMALL item, like food, or a pencil, or whatever.

Same applies to rape...if you have someone who you are married to (and obviously are already extremely intimate with), you trust with everything, and they are a massive part in your life, not listening to a "no" when you are too tired is not as big a deal as with a stranger or friend because 1: intimacy is already there 2: you are married, you DEDICATED YOUR LIFE to this person. 3: no damage is typically done physically 4: you realize getting legal authorities involved will cause more damage than the event will cause at all.

Another thing to consider is if you are viewing this as a buzzword issue, rather than imagining what REALLY happens...I figure some of you picture rape as in the woman is screaming, crying, bleeding, ect, while the man beats her and treats her savagely.... I mean literally, the woman trying to sleep, the man doing it for 15 minutes with no violence, the girl say "erg...can I sleep?" and the man says "just give me a minute". This it TECHNICALLY rape, but causes little, if any damage.
Politics really shouldn't be a discussion topic, in these forums...
I personally ADORE ludeon for allowing stuff, long as its civil, and not illegal. If we cannot discus something, how can we EVER hope to understand it?

Mods, pm me if theres any.. ...concern? I know I do my best not to break rules, and I believe I am not, but regardless.. ...I know how it can get.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 12:47:29 AM by mumblemumble »
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Why to people worry about following their heart? Its lodged in your chest, you won't accidentally leave it behind.

-----

Its bad because reasons, and if you don't know the reasons, you are horrible. You cannot ask what the reasons are or else you doubt it. But the reasons are irrefutable. Logic.

sadpickle

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2016, 04:51:00 PM »

When I say trump wants to kill millions, I say this because he heavily supports Oil Fracking.  You know those earth quakes in Oklahoma?  That are getting worse and more frequent.  Thats because of Oil Fracking, which is also happening in Texas now right under a big city.  All of Dallas is going to die.  Many people in Dallas are going to die.  Thanks to Oil Fracking, and Trump wants it to be increased, more oil fracking means more death.  So long as the oil companies get rich, right?  Who gives a fuck about human life, so long as someone gets rich and the poor die!

Although "oil fracking" is apparently a thing, when people and the media speak of fracking they are mostly talking about natural gas from shale deposits. Since late 2000s or so fracking shale formations for their natural gas has been ramping up. Fracking is a fairly complicated industrial process, but essentially involves injecting solutions of water and sand into shale formations, which causes them to crack apart, releasing the gas trapped inside. I'd like to just say up front that it is a very good thing, for humans and for the planet. Alarmist trolls that say we will poison the water supply almost invariably know nothing about fracking, so I wouldn't give them much merit. The EPA has said fracking is safe in the past, and even a recent report (which the media is erroneously (as usual) reporting on) offers only the flimsiest of evidence, and a lot of hand-waving about "what could happen".

Natural gas is not oil: it is not used in gasoline production. It is a hydrocarbon though, and is burned for energy in natural gas plants, which now makes up over half of all domestic and industrial (ie everything not a vehicle) energy production in the US. It's crucial to realize that though it is not a totally clean source of energy, natural gas produces significantly less atmospheric CO2 when burned and is such a cleaner source of energy than coal fired in coal plants, the other source of domestic and industrial energy.

This is important for several reasons. First, practically all of our natural gas in domestically produced. This makes the cost of energy comparatively low in the US compared to the rest of the world, which does not (but will eventually) access their shale reserves. It also makes us energy independent since we are not beholden to another country for importation of natural gas. The US still purchases oil from several countries; Canada is our main source of oil, not Saudi Arabia, though we still buy from them as well: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=727&t=6

For most of recent history, modern fuel sources could be largely grouped into two separate categories: coal and gas for domestic and industrial energy, and oil (petrol) for transport (oil is essential to the Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) which has long been the method of turning energy into motive power.) Electric Vehicle (EV) production will change that. EVs had long been a pipe dream, simply because the technology for a non-ICE vehicle with a range comparable to a typical vehicle wasn't there. This is no longer the case. As being shown by companies like Tesla, a 100% EV manufacturer, electric car technology is real, it works, it provides a range of 200+ miles on a full charge and surprisingly, Tesla's vehicles are also outperforming traditional ICE cars in many categories. Here is a Tesla Model X SUV outracing an Alfa Romeo, while towing another Alfa Romeo: https://electrek.co/2016/03/21/tesla-drag-race-alfa-romeo-vs-alfa-romeo-towed-by-model-x/

I believe EVs will begin replacing ICE vehicles as the cost drops. Tesla has a sedan starting at $35,000 coming out next year, so it's officially "affordable" now with leasing options comparable to a regular car. Why am I talking about this? Because EVs while being zero-emission still get their energy from sources that are not zero emission; ie coal and gas. If I am correct and EVs replace traditional gas vehicles, it is imperative we get most of our energy from the cleanest sources available now. Tesla CEO Elon Musk also has a solar-panel start-up he's merging with Tesla; the goal is to make it so every Tesla vehicle gets energy from Tesla solar panels, making it a true zero-emissions vehicle (production of solar panels is not zero-emissions, but let's not get into infinite regress here: solar panel OPERATION is zero-emission.) In the meantime most Tesla and other EV owners use the national grid to charge their cars.

Long post, but demonizing fracking is dumb. It's lack of affordable energy, not fracking, that causes death and misery for millions of people in the world. Luddites will receive no quarter from me: technological progress is here to stay.

edit: clarification
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 04:52:53 PM by sadpickle »
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RickyMartini

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Re: United states elections, part 3: the aftermath
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2016, 07:48:54 PM »

For supposedly being so against the "alarmist trolls" your stance that "fracking is a beautiful thing and a blessing for humanity" stance sure doesn't seem very impartial and honest.


At least tell it how it really is: Fracking is politically and scientifically very controversial, and it has been banned in several countries:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_hydraulic_fracturing

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