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Poll

What do you think about the new non-lethal weapons' power? (after the update) You can pick a diffrent option if you have changed your mind!

Way too weak (I think they should be buffed a lot)
- 3 (11.1%)
A bit too weak (I think they should be buffed slightly)
- 9 (33.3%)
Just fine
- 3 (11.1%)
A bit too powerful (I think they should be nerfed slightly)
- 1 (3.7%)
Way too powerful (I think they should be nerfed a lot)
- 0 (0%)
The mod looks nice, i will try it
- 11 (40.7%)

Total Members Voted: 27


Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: [A15] Non-lethal weapons mod (1.4) (formerly Blowgun) 10/12/2016  (Read 12023 times)

Canute

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2016, 01:33:45 PM »

I've used it once so far, was trying to down one of my chemical-fascinationbraindead guys before he could get to that flake some drop pods dropped on me against my will.
It was quite hard to hit him, because he crossed the max shooting distance in less time than my shooter needed to aim. He then broke LoS. Got another chance because I was hauling that flake around =)

I wouldn't say it's too weak, it's a mediaval weapon and might be dangerous when a tribe uses it against you. Has anyone encountered tribes with blow guns so far? Balancing problem might as well fix itself when you make us those fancy space-tech tranquiliser gun ;)
I didn't use this blowgun yet, but i used the other "original" blowgun with the deadly poison effect he copied.
Yes that weapon isn't for hunting or against raids. Range is to short and the warmup to extrem to hit free moving targets.
BUT i used the poison blowgun very succesful against thrumbos, because you just need 6-7 hits to down/kill a thumbo. Even with the bad acc. you can get the thumbo faster down then with regular vanilia weapons.

And that is what i think be the use of these blowgun are for, special to pick a few targets you don't want to kill like your own pawn on berserk, or valueables raiders you want as prisoner.
Sure if you adjust your defence you maybe can incap. the whole raid, before the first wakeup.
Can you install the blowgun on the turret base from Misc. mod ? :-)

When a tribal raid got a few blowgun they shouldn't be a big thread except the whole raid is equiped with them.

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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2016, 02:57:03 PM »

Quote
Can you install the blowgun on the turret base from Misc. mod ? :-)

I don't really think blowgun turrets are a good idea. Maybe i will add some kind of non-lethal turret but it will have more technologicaly advanced weapons than blowguns. Anyway, if you post a link to this Misc. mod i could consider making what you asked for (i don't like giving promises i won't hold).

Thundercraft

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2016, 03:54:44 PM »

...Anyway i am working on trankgun (tranquilizer) textures. What do you think? (I am saking everyone, not just Wishmaker)

It looks very good. Though, the pistol grip and the relatively short barrel implies a relatively short range. Personally, I'd like to see a tranq gun with a rifle-like barrel and rifle-like grip for a rifle-like range.

Q: Would the license to use this trank texture be the same as for your blowgun mod?

BTW: As I've been fiddling around with a tranquilizer mod, I created textures for a tranquilizer dart. I thought the first one looked a bit large, so I also created a smaller, shorter version. (I think it looks fine in-game.) And I also made a huge version, with plans to use it for the mod's title graphic. License: Do whatever you want with this. (I just want to see more non-lethal weapon mods.)

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 11:37:11 AM by Thundercraft »
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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2016, 10:15:10 AM »

Thank you for contributing the textures.
Quote
Q: Would the license to use this trank texture be the same as for your blowgun mod?
Yeah, i am planing to make 1 non-lethal weapons mod that will unclude blowgun, trankgun and some spacer age non-lethal weapon. It will probably have the same license  :)

Quote
Though, the pistol grip and the relatively short barrel implies a relatively short range. Personally, I'd like to see a tranq gun with a rifle-like barrel and rifle-like grip for a rifle-like range.
Yeah, it is a trank. pistol. I don't want to make large long-range non-lethal weapons because it would make incaping raider too easy and it would make the game unbalanced. Getting prisoners should still be challenging!

I hope the trank pistol will be ready by the end if the weakends but i won't promise anything.
Anyway, i have 2 ideas i want your  opinion about (i am asking everyone).
1) Make some kind of rage-starting weapons (they will make the target go berserk).
2) Make the effect reduce moving and manipulation instead of consciousness. So it will be paralyzant rather than soporific. I think it will make it more realistic

I also would like to hear your ideas about what should be the  spacer age non-lethal weapon. I think it should be the size of a pistol, not a rifle. Please say how you imagine it and how it should look like.

Updated the texture slightly

[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 10:21:51 AM by Kapun »
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Thundercraft

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 12:48:56 PM »

Thank you for contributing the textures.

Happy to contribute something.

Yeah, it is a trank. pistol.

Depending on how it's done, a trank pistol would be okay.

I also would like to hear your ideas about what should be the  spacer age non-lethal weapon. I think it should be the size of a pistol, not a rifle. Please say how you imagine it and how it should look like.

How about a Hypospray? It could be a non-lethal melee weapon. And because it has a range of 0, you could afford to give it a high accuracy. I'd like to see more non-lethal melee weapons. For one thing, I think they would perfectly complement non-lethal weapons that induce moods like Berserk or inflict a loss of Manipulation. After a raider has been forced to go into melee, we need a way to capture them.

I don't want to make large long-range non-lethal weapons because it would make incaping raider too easy and it would make the game unbalanced.

If all non-lethal weapons have a short range, can't-shoot-the-broad-side-of-a-barn-awful accuracy, and an insanely high reload time, and if the raiders can easily out-range and out-shoot them, then you're putting your pawns at terrible risk by trying to capture a few. If you end up with crippled or dead colonists in your attempts at capture, then you end up with a net loss instead of a gain. Obviously, if that's the case, then such weapons are not worth using.

Personally, I think it's perfectly fair to let players have a non-lethal weapon with a decent or even good range as long as it is balanced by having a really long warmup and reload time and/or terrible accuracy. Alternatively, you can have a non-lethal weapon with medium or short range as long as the accuracy and/or reload time is decent or incredibly high. (Which is why I complained about the Blowgun, since it's so terrible in all three areas.) It's all comes down to balance.

Getting prisoners should still be challenging!

But I think the whole point of non-lethal weapons is to make obtaining prisoners easi-er. Not easy, per se, but much easier than the nearly impossible challenge it seems to be in a vanilla game. Otherwise, what is the point?

I don't think it's too game unbalancing since there's still the issue of trying to recruit prisoners. If that's the intent, the game takes care of that problem by making it increasingly difficult to recruit prisoners the more your population grows. By the time your population reaches your Storytellers "Critical" pop limit, recruiting should be impossible and the Storyteller is constantly throwing nasty events at you to force a reduction in your population.

Mostly, want to capture more prisoners for the purpose of stuff like organ harvesting and capture'n release.
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Canute

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 01:02:10 PM »

Quote
Anyway, i have 2 ideas i want your  opinion about (i am asking everyone).
1) Make some kind of rage-starting weapons (they will make the target go berserk).
2) Make the effect reduce moving and manipulation instead of consciousness. So it will be paralyzant rather than soporific. I think it will make it more realistic
The rage pistol would be interesting as rage rifle, when you could early some raiders into berserkers. Once they are close it is too late IMO.
What do you think about a fear/flee effect ? :-)

And i though about a sleep gun, but new raiders arrive with full bar, so this wouldn't have much effect. But it would be useful against your own pawns with arn't controlable. But the blowgun would have the same effect.



Not sure what do you await from these reduce moving/manipulation effects. He will still be active and try to move/fight even when he barly can move and has no fingers to pull the trigger.

Btw. there is allready a good mellee non lethal weapon mod, https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27551.msg279564#msg279564
1 hit wonder, but the target will be up pretty soon.
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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 01:36:37 PM »

Quote
How about a Hypospray? It could be a non-lethal melee weapon. And because it has a range of 0, you could afford to give it a high accuracy. I'd like to see more non-lethal melee weapons. For one thing, I think they would perfectly complement non-lethal weapons that induce moods like Berserk or inflict a loss of Manipulation. After a raider has been forced to go into melee, we need a way to capture them.

I might add this hypospray gun, thank you for the idea. But i was actualy asking about a ranger non-lethal spacer age weapon.
When i said about reducing manipulation/moving i ment reducing them down to 0% (with a sufficient dose) so the target will be downed.

Quote
If all non-lethal weapons have a short range, can't-shoot-the-broad-side-of-a-barn-awful accuracy, and an insanely high reload time, and if the raiders can easily out-range and out-shoot them, then you're putting your pawns at terrible risk by trying to capture a few. If you end up with crippled or dead colonists in your attempts at capture, then you end up with a net loss instead of a gain. Obviously, if that's the case, then such weapons are not worth using.

Well, i will buff the blowgun a bit (probably accurasy) and the more technologicaly advanced non-lethal weapons will be better so it won't be that bad.

Quote
But I think the whole point of non-lethal weapons is to make obtaining prisoners easi-er. Not easy, per se, but much easier than the nearly impossible challenge it seems to be in a vanilla game. Otherwise, what is the point?
It easier because i won't kill them by accedent. It gives you are better way of obtaing recruts then just shoting a bunch of raider and them nursing the lucky surviver back to healh. Maybe i will thinker with the code to make datrs have 0% to penetrate armor that is thicker than some value. So it will make the darts less usefull agains armored target and that will allow me to buff them without making them OP.

Anyway the mod is quite new and i see that the balance is probably not perfect. When i have time (at the weakends hopefully) i will analyse all the feedback to decide how much to tweak the blowgun.
So everyone who tested the mod, tell me if you like the things the way they are now or not. Your opinion does matter!  :D
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 02:53:12 PM by Kapun »
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Thundercraft

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2016, 01:09:13 PM »

Anyway, i have 2 ideas i want your opinion about (i am asking everyone).
1) Make some kind of rage-starting weapons (they will make the target go berserk)...

It is interesting that you bring this up because I've been working on a Berserk-inducing gun for a while. Your post did prod me to finish and I finally pushed out a release yesterday. But it's not like I stole the idea since I've been working on it since at least November 27'th. You're welcome to download and study the code, or whatever, though.

It's worth noting that when a projectile is designed to induce a Mental State like Berserk or WanderPsychotic, it bypasses the random death mechanic. Without even using a .dll, such weapons have a very low mortality rate. However, there are some caveats and limitations. I'll try to explain that and more in my thread.

2) Make the effect reduce moving and manipulation instead of consciousness. So it will be paralyzant rather than soporific. I think it will make it more realistic

That is an interesting idea. Let us know how it works.

According to the wiki page on Health:

Code: [Select]
Pain: Fatal if all capacity is lost?: NO
Consciousness: Fatal if all capacity is lost?: YES
Moving: Fatal if all capacity is lost?: NO
Manipulation: Fatal if all capacity is lost?: NO

I wonder if loosing 100% of Moving would make the victim susceptible to capture?
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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Blowgun-non-lethal weapon mod (1.3) 04/12/2016
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2016, 01:19:58 PM »

Quote
I wonder if loosing 100% of Moving would make the victim susceptible to capture?
Yeah, they will be downed the same way as if they got their spine shattared or their leg shot off.

I saw your post, haven't tried the mod yet though. In my mod I will probably do the incaping guns before moving onto rage-starting ones but when i do it your code will be quite useful, thank you for letting my study it :D
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 02:42:16 PM by Kapun »
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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Non-lethal weapons mod (1.4) (formerly Blowgun) 10/12/2016
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2016, 01:04:01 PM »

Updated to v 1.4
Added tranq gun and the corresponding research
Buffed blowgun
Replaced soporific with paralizant - shouldn't change weapons' effectiveness

Looking for your feedback! :D You can just vote at the top of the first page.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:56:45 PM by Kapun »
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Scott2277

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Re: [A15] Non-lethal weapons mod (1.4) (formerly Blowgun) 10/12/2016
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 08:47:22 AM »

I just used this mod in [A16] the other day, it works great other than the fact that the dosage of paralyzant never lowers. So the targets hit with it are downed for life. (I'm no programmer, so I don't know how easy this is to fix, but I would love to see this mod updated to [A16].)
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Thyme

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Re: [A15] Non-lethal weapons mod (1.4) (formerly Blowgun) 10/12/2016
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2017, 02:06:16 PM »

Any chance this will be updated to A16?
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Kapun

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Re: [A15] Non-lethal weapons mod (1.4) (formerly Blowgun) 10/12/2016
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2017, 11:13:08 AM »

Unfortunatly, i have very little free time at the moment. If someone wants to help, they are free to update the mod to A16 and send it to me. I will post the updated version here, giving the person credits, of course.
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