Do we really need rimkids?

[MAKAIROSI]

Greetings! So after all this time i finally played the latest version. My previous posts were unfortunately concerning the very first playable alphas and what i imagined the updates would be like gameplay-wise. So now i can finally tackle a few points in regards to where we are now.

First of all, about the topic's title. Do we really need rimkids? Because as i was playing the game i was thinking i am really not low on personnel at all. Furthermore rimkids would add a hell of a lot more stuff to think about and the most important of all was education. I mean they aren't born knowing the language. Animals are fine since you can just train them, however education is a lot more complex. For example, we would have to add a new skill, "teaching" or something like that. We would also have to add "human handle" which is completely different to "handle" (which concerns animal handling). We would need a classroom, a playground, and what about the mother that gave birth? She could die, or she could otherwise be affected by the fact that she gave birth. What i'm saying is, it's stretched way beyond the limits of the game as it is now. However, converting slaves or pod survivors is actually pretty productive. Also, with the inclusion of biological/chronological age, i had a guy who was biologically 16 and chronologically 100+ so basically he's my "main" char (i've reached spacer technology and he's still 21). So do we need rimkids? I think the devs should focus on travelling away from the colony (i don't know if it's implemented now, because there was a hint somewhere of a food that lasts for long distances or something? but i haven't found out if or how i can do it yet).

Travelling away from the colony would mean resettling, forming your own caravans, attacking a different colony or tribe, etc. Why not even form a second colony and be able to switch between them - that's not very far away - although it is far from the original concept (escaping).

Anyway the topic remains, do we really need rimkids? And i think the answer is not yet (if ever). I was getting the feeling that the planet's atmosphere has some sort of birth-inhibiting essences that stops women from getting pregnant by simply breathing in the air, and it was fine! It's sad to see, of course, that your favourite colonist's genes won't pass on, however i think it's a bit more plausible this way. I now have about 8-9 people and i have turned down many opportunities for more, or converting prisoners, because right now, 9 is all i need. So if my 9 colonists started making babies, then i would need to expand, and then i would need to expand even more, and soon enough the whole map wouldn't be enough.

Actually i think the map should be enlarged. Actually it could be an industrial-level tech, to enlarge the map plus one tenth map size in every direction, and the tech would have 10 tiers, each tier costs more (3000 - 5000 - 7000 - 9000 - 11000 and so on). Would it affect the fps that much? However we don't even need that one.

I really look forward to seeing the transport pods (was that the name?) i saw in the teaser. However, let me say it again. Right now the game is perfectly playable. A technological curve was added, so i basically started with wood and butchering and cooking in fuelled cooking tables, slowly researching i reached the point that i could contact ships, and i could only reach even the state to start making the ship towards late-game (where i am now). What can i say? Most of the things i disliked in the early alpha are gone or replaced with a much more plausible and immersive gameplay.

And last but not least, to get back to the topic, i think we should let the devs work on our own caravans and colony expansion, rather than rimkids. At least for now. Maybe, we could research how to stop this birth-inhibiting atmosphere towards late game, which would mean we choose to stay instead of leaving (and the ship could be used for something else).

Now on other feedback. I actually don't have much to say as most of it is positive, but i'll try to raise a few points anyway.

1. When a person has a mental break and starts removing his/her clothes, the items have to be re-enabled in order for the person to re-wear them or other people to haul them. I don't understand why is that. If the item was reserved for the person who dropped it, then it's understandable but i think it has to be enabled for even the same person to use it. The problem with this is that then you have to go tracking down all the objects that were dropped and you might even miss some.

2. When there's a bzzzt event, the power cables in the explosion area vanish and aren't automatically re-blueprinted. I mean, the solution is in the problem. They have to be re-blueprinted. Or at least show us where the cables were before they were destroyed ? Or at least make it optional ?

3. You can repair a turret but you cannot repair a weapon. And there i thought an automatic robo-turret was more sophisticated and complex than a pistol. I would also like to see repairable robotic parts (like arms and legs and eyes). The only reason i've stayed away from them is because as i remember they can break down and you need new ones. I think in spacer-level tech you should be able to repair them yourself. It's just repairing, there is a percentage already there, so why not ?

4. Why can't the colonists somehow fire from inside the walls? I mean, either climb the walls, or just make holes and fire through them with an accuracy handicap. Or let us create bunker-like structures so we can man them when the raiders come.

Anyway that's all from me. Sorry for the long post! I'll go back to my colony now. I have two thrumbos, male and female, visiting my colony and i'm trying to tame them. Imagine the faces on those raiders!

[skinicism]

  Rim kids would likely start off being wild.
Therefore, they would have to be tamed by
psychiatrists who understand where they're
coming from. Also, they would need to
volunteer for electives as nurse assistants
or repair apprentices (with additional paid
training bonuses based on crop harvest).
Potentially Rim kids could even prank call
raiders on their beep bop ad lib music
device implants.

[keylocke]

i'd suggest reading up on other threads that already discussed adding "rimkids" (aka : munchkin meatbags)

where most of the issues you've raised have been discussed time and again. otherwise, people will drop by this thread and repost and rehash the same things they've discussed ages ago.

[Rock5]

Am i the only one that read the second paragraph as a really good argument FOR rimkids?

Rimkids could be like pets. They could give a huge mood boost to the colonists. The parents could get a buff for being the kids carer and a debuff if they aren't. There could be extra jobs associated with caring for kids and a massive colony wide debuff if you're irresponsible enough to let them get killed.

Personally I don't see kids as being a realistic method of getting new colonists considering the length of the average game but as a mechanic to increase the immersion of the game, just like pets did.

[Grishnerf]

i am totally for Kids!
but i see the social justice warrior/political correctness Problems These days.

i just hope tynan implements some day a learning (growing up) System for ROBOTS.
so modder can make it for human panws and everyone is happy.

[mumblemumble]

honestly, learning is the BIGGEST barrier.. kids would need to slowly grow more adept, being useless little jerks for maybe 5 years, before, with discipline, being able to simple stuff like farmwork, cleaning, maybe even low skill cooking. Then slowly bring in more jobs along the years, and a better rate of actually trying to work.

[Sola]

Love kids, but it would be difficult to implement cleanly.

"I don't want to waste time feeding this kid that can't do anything"
*leaves kid to starve/die to wolves*
*Entire colony goes berserk to low mood caused by death of colonist/outsider/child*

Or worse, pregnancy disabling a colonist.  They still eat, but don't work.
"Karen, we're trying to escape a planet fraught with pirates, manhunter packs, planetkiller weapons, and ... really?  Are you REALLY considering having a child like.. right now?"

[CodeRen]

DF had them, so its cool. Also, with the new world features you will want more people, and i dont want multiple colonies of random joiners or slaves. Raising pawns in a16 and beyond will make much more sense. In a game focused on storytelling, what other story is greater than a pawns entire life until he dies?

Also this
Look what he said about kids here recently:
https://twitter.com/TynanSylvester/status/794003347376377856
https://ludeon.com/blog/2016/01/progress-continues/ -- Here he says he hasnt added kids YET

[keylocke]

ooh. nice. i really hope Ty adds rimkids.

i want to have a multi-generation colony that can stand the test of time, passed down from parents to their offsprings.. instead of just a collection of random people joining, or people i've captured and recruited, or slaves i bought.

nope. it would be cool to get actual families for real as a result of their actions (sexytimes) rather than just familial relationships randomly generated offscreen.

[Thirite]

... i see the social justice warrior/political correctness Problems These days. ...

Tynan is quite clearly redpilled against SJW nonsense, so I don't think you need to worry about him prostrating himself for internet crybullies. Back when GamerGate was big he could even have been described as pro-GG. He's surprisingly well spoken on the matter, which is impressive considering SJWs deserve little more than being told to fuck off.

[mugenzebra]

TLDR; Let's not be stuck with the idea of raising kids "traditionally," could we? At space age, we can have artificial wombs, which will allow children to grow at hyper speed, this rids the needs of raising and teaching kids. In addition, having frequently dropped pods and wanderer join don't make sense logically, let along those people are often our colonists' relatives, LOL. The game begins with a crash-landing situation, this should be pretty rare, or else space technologies are just not reliable to a ridiculous degree. Having rim-kids this way can be a reasonable way to have families and relatives in Rimworld.

[MAKAIROSI]

It's true, random relatives don't make sense. In a vast universe finding your ex-girlfriend in a random planet in a settlement is completely non-sense even if it only happens once in the game let alone it happening all the time. But it didn't ruin my immersion.

Artificial wombs is a good suggestion ! I was thinking inside the box, traditional families and growing of children, but it could just be that! I'll write more later.

[A Friend]

If you guys are gonna go the BABY-GROWER-3000 route, I suggest that vat-growing people cause quite the mood debuff for pawns and the parents. Sure it might be logical and practical but it just seems wrong to strip a person of their childhood. Imagine waking up one day in a tube and there's these two strangers saying they're your mom and dad and then forces you clean up a bunch of people's rooms.

Growing vats can be an option. But like luciferium, it should be rare and risky.

[MAKAIROSI]

Well, he's right however it's not like we got any other options. A newborn child would get to 16 in 16 in-game years without doing anything. Even if we say education is gained via a pill (not passion, passions could be gene-based) so we're done with classrooms etc, we still have the 16 years problem. I was waiting for an in-game year for my thrumbo to give birth and trust me, it was a LOT of time. They would have to add a TON of content to keep the player interested to even consider having new colonists that way. I'm not saying it's impossible, it's entirely possible, it's even possible to add "teacher" in jobs and add classroom buildings and playgrounds but that's what i said in my topic's title: do we really need it?

We could have artificial wombs, cloning devices and robo-suits to get our favorite chars immortal. But then again, that ruins the entire premise of the game: storytelling. I mean, when you have a favorite colonist and he/she grows old and withers, that's the entire point. He/she did so much for the colony and now has dementia and has to be constantly catered to.

By the way i would love to be able to transfer the mind of a colonist to a robot. But i'm just not sure if that's going a long way away from the point.

Also, another argument for artificial wombs would be, who says our real (far) future isn't like that. A pill for education and a fully developed body from day 1. Maybe we're so far into the future here that that's absolutely normal.

[mugenzebra]

Sure it might be logical and practical but it just seems wrong to strip a person of their childhood. Imagine waking up one day in a tube and there's these two strangers saying they're your mom and dad and then forces you clean up a bunch of people's rooms.

Your empathy is understandable. But that is the life of the rim, it goes to the extreme, you don't get the glitterworld life. And you realize some pawns have childhood of being, iirc, test subjects? So for some colonists, theird childhood is already bad. You know kids don't have to stay in artificial womb all the time, they can come out sometimes to have time with their parents lol After their body is in adulthood they are still their parents children, right? Let's be imaginative here.

As of education, I am sure you've seen the movie Matrix right? Getting educated in simulated world doesn't sound too unrealistic in RW.