forced prostitution

[keylocke]

everyone knows it's a bad thing to cannibalize or murder people.

even if they do it in a game, most people aren't stupid enough to actually go use a game as their justification for doing the same thing in real life. (unless they're already totally fvcked up in the head in the first place, like a real life psychopath/sociopath/whatever)

same thing with goes with rape. just coz it's in a game, it doesn't mean people would actually go out and rape people. if that's truly the case then most video games should be banned for promoting violence, murder, theft, etc..

so not only do games not necessarily promote violence, rape, etc.. some people who suffered ptsd from witnessing violent deaths are still able to play video games that depicts violent deaths.

heck, i'm not even sure why rape and sexuality became a video game taboo in the first place.

sexuality is slowly getting accepted back into the mainstream coz of witcher,mass effect, skyrim mods, etc.. heck in skyrim mods, there's practically no taboo in that niche.

[Konscience]

keylocke
There is no rape in Skyrim (outside mods).
But I guess you could just take the thread from the beginning and start reading, there are useful post in there, and what you said was posted several times already.

[keylocke]

@konscience :

if you read what i post i specifically mentioned skyrim MODS. i mentioned that for the large number of exposure that it has, since i think some modders of that scene have already gone beyond the taboo barrier other people have imposed upon themselves.

secondly, the reason i posted is exactly because i already read the entire thread from the beginning. i was specifically addressing some of the posts talking about people that's gonna experience "trauma" from seeing rape in a game and they say that rape should only be restricted to mods.

so i went ahead and discussed how violence, murder, and cannibalism are in the main game, just like in many other games, and yet :

1) violence, murder, and cannibalism aren't perpetrated by every gamer who plays such games (people who do those things already have the tendency to do those things, with or without the game)

2) people who suffered trauma like PTSD from witnessing violent deaths can sometimes help cope with the trauma by experiencing it in a video game. i believe that rape victims might also be able to use such things as a therapy, allowing them to move on stronger than ever before, rather than perpetually seeing themselves as a helpless victim.

so those two things are the ones i address coz those are the main two reasons the people here have listed why they don't wanna see rape in a video game and why it is a "taboo".

but i call bs on that.. it simply does not compute under scrutiny.

inb4 : i can't speak for rape victims coz i haven't experienced their trauma. lel. i actually am one. got molested by a relative when i was a kid, then i grew up and punched him in the face, told him him i'd send the cops for him if i ever catch him doing it again.

now he's more terrified of me, than i ever was afraid of him.

you can't allow yourself to become a victim forever.

[Goldenpotatoes]

I've yet to see a compelling argument for how this would actively enhance the gameplay past a shock factor of 'they actually added this in?'

The more violent/gruesome aspects of the game are appropriate because the genre of the game lends itself to these events and the way those mechanics are implemented actually feel fleshed out and genuinely add to the gameplay.

Unless you plan on also getting a fleshed-out slavery system added along the prisoner system with appropriate colonist responses, you won't be handling the topic with the maturity it requires and will only feel tacked-on and only added for the shock value instead of actually being meaningful gameplay-wise.

[keylocke]

why would rape be perpetually tied to slavery?

my guess is that it goes something like this :

-colonist1(straight m/f, bi, or gay) tries to seduce colonist2 and gets repeatedly rebuffed.
-colonist1 has a mental breakdown and goes on a social fight against colonist2 (this allows player to intervene during the altercation)
-if colonist1 gets colonist2 incapacitated, colonist1 will either try to carry colonist2 to a double bed or rape on the spot. (player can still intervene)
-if rape was successful, then everyone else in the colony would get a huge negative social rating against colonist1.
-there would be more social fights against colonist1, people could actually gang up on him/her. increasing the chances of killing colonist1 or causing permanent injury.
-rape is one of the viable crimes in the colony. just like going on a berserk murder rampage.

so why would anyone suggest to add crimes to rimworld? coz people aren't fvcking angels and as mentioned before, it's a powerful dark storyline.

but in the end it's a matter of bias. just like censorships are a matter of bias. or like how some people wanna add drinking and pissing mechanics in rimworld, while some people don't want it. like how some people wanted pets in rimworld but some people didn't want it (some even opposed it ages ago), there were also people who opposed the idea of traveling to other areas (but now, hello a16), heck we even have addictive substance abuse in a15.

the problem with bias is that no matter what amount of logic you try to use to convince another person who has an opposing bias, it is unlikely to work. coz bias are often tied to strong emotions, and emotions often trump logic most of the time. which is why people would often get trapped in an impasse.

it's really mostly a matter of preference. we've seen several times how many people opposed one idea, but the moment it gets implemented and people have started testing it out, things really aren't as bad or as irrelevant as people imagined it to be.

the closer to realism the game has, the more depth it gets. heck, i'm still one of the people who wants to see water requirements for drinking and pissing, and many other ideas thrown in.

-----

as for (forced) prostitution itself : i elaborated how such a system could work in a previous post. prostitution could work without needing to be "forced".

[Konscience]

I wouldn't had anything to say if you had summarised and explained like you did in your reply ^^

I understand very well what you are trying to bring here, but it is more about a social media and public image issue, than breaking a tabou.
A good thing about this game is choice, let me explain:
Here, nobody is forced to deal with cannibalism, maybe a lot of people playing this game will never do it, because of choice and solutions given to them.
Same for prisonniers, it's all up to you to decide if you want do release them of do strange things that break the human rights law.
Hell they are even under anaesthetics so you can't even directly torture them neither attack them if they are prisoners.

Then come the sex topic.
Yes, it is taboo.
Not it is not allowed on Rimworld, on steam, on most legal video game retailers worldwide. Hence the "lovin' " action when colonist snu-snu.
And here I'm only talking about sex, nothing fancy I admit, but we are in society, there are laws, and there are mass media fallouts if you make too much noise. (see for reference the RPS issue).

Then, here is another level, our actual topic, "rape".
That's not the same as killing someone in a legit conflict. Rape is classified at the same level as torture.
wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimes_against_humanity#Rape_and_sexual_violence
Just a bit of information, nothing much to make a point really, it's just for illustrating my opinion.

Sure it would be hard to come by and it would be in the core game since the beginning, AND we still would be in 2000, maybe "optional rape" would not make much noise.
But here we are today when some random idiot spread bullshit about gender equality, it make such noise that I'm sure lot of people had second thought before buying the game. Even I, was asking myself if that was true, despite being aware that such articles are loads of BS...

Now, just, just imagine a bit, what would happen, if rape came into Rimworld.
What if some funny bastard would come, and started a nice clicbait article titled "RimWorld: where you must rape women to beat the game"
And don't tell me "it will never happen" or "I'm making things up"
You know deep inside this could happen.
And consequences would be just irrecoverable

I don't think a lot of people would buy the game after reading such article, don't you think?...

TL;DR : read the whole post, else it is meaningless.

[keylocke]

@konscience : "RimWorld: where you must rape women to beat the game" <--- you keep telling me to read the whole posts, but if you even bothered to read my post you won't make the mistake of saying this, since i don't think anyone has ever said that rape was ever gonna be required to "beat the game".

it's such a blatant strawman argument and if there's any journalist out there willing to make that clickbait article, there's also enough people who'd write and prove them wrong.

heck, it's not that hard to write and submit an article or a review of the game ahead of a stable release, getting ahead of any clickbait articles that could damage the game and being able to explain the new feature in such a way that any liberal or conservative would say.. "ah, ok i'm cool with that if THAT'S how they implemented it"

rape isn't a juvenile topic. heck, some of the award winning films involves rape. though it makes some people uneasy, it's really not something people should censor.

why? coz ignorance doesn't save anyone.

heck, when i was a kid i had absolutely no friggin idea what rape was or what gay people was. i didn't even bother to ask my parents what it was coz i had totally no clue about it until i was almost in highschool. i didn't know what to be careful of and who to be careful of. totally friggin defenseless.

so nope. i actually think rape shouldn't be a taboo topic nor should it be censored. people needs to be aware of what it is and how to avoid it, especially the people who are most vulnerable to it, instead of being kept in the blind just to please other people's "sensitivities".

[LordMunchkin]

Rape and slavery do exist in Rimworld. It's just that civilized people don't practice it, i.e. you're playing colonists not raiders. In addition, rape and slavery are just distasteful even if they are realistic. In many ways, they are WORSE than so many imaginary horrors because of how close to reality they are.

Prostitution, on the other hand, would be a good addition especially for pawns that are only good at social things. That and bartenders, shopkeepers, school teachers, etc...

[Plymouth]

To all who replied here:
I would like to say that I like where this discussion is going, many valid points have been raised, and I've just got a bit more hope in humanity and humanity's ability to use reals over feels. Keep it up! 

[SaintD]

Cannibalism is in the game because this is a survival game and you can potentially be reduced to eating people in order to survive the harsh environment. It's an obvious and well-known extremity of trying to survive in terrible conditions.

Adding rape and sexual slavery to the game has nothing to do with survival, and everything to do with trying to package your kink into the game. We don't even have a dynamic water system in our game all about wilderness survival yet, but people are seriously debating the merits of adding *rape* into the game, and patting each other on the back for being so 'mature' in discussing it like 'grown ups'. Real grown ups, in person, simply glare irritably at foolishness like this until the purveyor of it wilts under the weight of their own idiocy, and then get on with something important.

Perspective. You have none. It isn't 'political correctness' that prevents discussions like these, and you're not some kind of mature, counter cultural hero for having the discussion in the face of the scary PC brigade, or SJW, or whatever ridiculous labels you're using today. It's a simple case of people knowing that "Hey, lets add rape to the game" is the sort of thing that rightfully gets you looked at like a tool by everyone else in the room in the real world, then ignored like a child. This isn't intellectual empowerment, it's degeneracy trying to couch itself in such terms, like creationism trying to wear science like some hideous skinsuit to get into the Totally Legit And Evidential Club.

This thread is like a sentence started with, "Ok, I'm not racist, but......"

[keylocke]

meh, there's a bunch of people here who repeatedly say it's irrelevant, juvenile, perverted.. those are their main arguments.

but the question is WHY? why single out rape? it's not something special compared to murder, torture, and cannibalism. it's like the people doing this are not even conscious about their own bias of creating this inane taboo about this topic.

meanwhile, to some people like me who actually experienced it first hand. i realized ages ago that either i killed myself or get over it.. (i found this song by blackbox recorder that sang : life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it) it really made a mark. i got over it. i hate the drama.

i was born from strict catholic parents, was educated in a catholic school, sang in a choir at church. i lived a cushy sheltered life when i was a kid inside that illusory "safe space" bubble that my parents and environment created for me, completely ignorant about my own ignorance.

but that "safe space" bubble is an illusion. rape was just an abstraction for me like a bogeyman, something so vague and unreal that i thought it was just a joke. it's not something you actually believe until you see the horror of it. which is why to the social justice warriors, i think they're shooting themselves in the foot whenever they censor things coz it fosters ignorance to the people who are most vulnerable to it. so who exactly are they fighting for other than their own personal bias? the same like everyone else, just wrapped up in so much hypocrisy.

so what does this got anything to do with rimworld? rimworld is a story generator. it fits there like water, zlevels, kids, pets, travel, prostitution, surgery, etc.. coz there's really no set limitations to a sandbox game.

usually only 2 things factored for putting a feature into a game :
1) technical issues (zlevels and multiplayer seems to fall in this category)
2) bias (taboo topics, relevance, fun, etc.. fall in this category)

what is relevant, what is fun, what is taboo, etc.. are all based on personal bias. no matter how much logic is given, nobody is ever gonna be forced to like something they dislike to the core, and vice versa. because bias is not based on logic, it is based on emotions and personal preference.


tl;dr : i acknowledge other people's bias are incompatible with mine. no more and no less. i merely address how funny it is to rationalize something based on bias. (ie : why is rimworld scifi western? it's what tynan wants. why does the game play like DF combined with RTS? coz it's what tynan wants. most of the game features by most games are based on the personal bias of their creators or their fans)

in essence, it's like this entire topic is an argument whether which one is better : bitter or sour?

there's no single answer that's gonna be accepted as 100% true. and i guess, that's the main point of my post. it's an impasse.

[alsoandanswer]

this suggestion depends on what type of game it is. this is a game based on dwarf fortress - where dick jokes and fun lava-death traps are king.

this type of thing belongs in games like GTA 5. rimworld is more of a quirky base building game.

for example - cannibalism. sure, it's really odd, but to be honest, you could do it in real life if you really wanted to. same as eating your pets.

but forced prostitution, rape and torture are in a whole different place. there has been a clear line which has been drawn, and it's dick jokes, that's the most sexual you can get in rimworld.

[MAKAIROSI]

No, just no. Organ harvesting is supposed to be done in humane ways. No matter how you do it, the game doesn't let you not use proper medicine. And concerning the ability to consume a corpse or make clothes from human leather, this is a survival game. If you could do nothing else to shelter yourself from the cold but butcher corpses for leather then you would do it. Similar to stories of people who had to eat each other to survive. And this word "survive" is what matters.

So no, sex (forced or consenting) would not be a survival matter since you can survive without it. But you cannot survive without clothes or food. And you can't survive with failing lungs and kidneys and heart etc. That's why there's human meat, human leather and organ harvesting. And the reason why they put lovers in the game is just because it's natural. Rape isn't.

Also, you said "so it's ok to butcher limbs and harvest organs for fun" or something along those lines. No, it's not ok to do it for fun. Again, this is a survival game. You do it because you need it. Even if you're going to sell it, you need the silver to buy other stuff like food, medicine, etc. And it's done "humanely". (I put this word in quotes because that's what supposedly happens - we don't get to see it, we just imagine it.) And since you get a ton of negative buffs if you harvest organs or sell the prisoners, or even just kill them, and positive buffs if you're good, then the game makes you (at least want to) think in a good way.

So think survival. And what would naturally happen. Both of these.

[Tammabanana]

... it's not something you actually believe until you see the horror of it. which is why to the social justice warriors, i think they're shooting themselves in the foot whenever they censor things coz it fosters ignorance to the people who are most vulnerable to it...

Complete censorship is not productive, but implementing on-camera rape in this genre of video game turns it into a terrible and desensitizing joke.

If you want to use a video game as a tool to talk about rape, it's not the rape itself you need to be putting on display, it's how to stop it. Creepy pawns getting disliked by non-psychopath pawns on account of their creepiness; all nearby non-psychopaths insulting/starting social fights with the creep when the creep "tries to woo" someone who dislikes them; non-psychopath pawns telling all their buddies to watch out for that creep, and spread the dislike debuff to their friends; any pawn with a rapist/murderer backstory having a permanent "guilty" flag, something like that.

[Thirite]

...And the reason why they put lovers in the game is just because it's natural. Rape isn't.
...

Hardly. Rape happens literally ALL the time in the animal kingdom. Lice have to physically stab through the female's carapace to impregnate them. Slugs (who are hermaphrodites) have actual rape-fights trying to forcibly impregnate the other first. But that's besides the point. Rape is not something we need in the game, no more than we need any other degenerate content.

Tynan will never add it. If you want a mod for perverts then go ask some degenerate modder.