forced prostitution

[sadpickle]

...And the reason why they put lovers in the game is just because it's natural. Rape isn't.
...

Hardly. Rape happens literally ALL the time in the animal kingdom. Lice have to physically stab through the female's carapace to impregnate them. Slugs (who are hermaphrodites) have actual rape-fights trying to forcibly impregnate the other first.

When i said "naturally" i didn't mean "happens in nature" but "happens naturally" (i don't know how else to put it). By that i meant that if you are in a colony it would be almost impossible to escape developing feelings for someone. It's not specifically about survival, but you can't escape it. Maybe i chose the wrong word?

It's called empathy, or lacking that, a conscience. A valuable trait indeed for the rational man.

[IHateRegistering]

There's also a unique 'sex slave' background saying that this pawn was bred and engineered to be the perfect prostitute or something like that. But still, actual rape happening in the game itself during gameplay is another story, and one that would be wise not to tell in the vanilla game. For the same reason why drugs have fantasy names instead of real ones, we also don't know how valve would react if sexually explicit material revolving around rape was listed in their store. It's simply not worth it and why not let modders do the job without any risk for themselves and the game?

[mumblemumble]

Heres something to consider...which is worse? Saying women with sex slave backgrounds, or such like that are willing "massive whores" who at the age they were deflowered, were 100% willing to throw their innocence away, and thus deserve no sympathy as they were fully willing? Or to say the girl got raped?

Think... ..very carefully before answering that.

I think its actually extremely offensive to assume a woman could not be raped, as its literally assuming sex slaves were just BORN slutty. And thats pretty much the epitome of sexism.

Maybe its just me, but I think its more offensive to say a woman was a whore who decided to become a prostitute by her own choice as a teenager, than to just admit she got raped, and forced into it.

One is literally victim blaming, another is acknowledging the grim reality.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO....

Do you want to blame sex slaves for being whores, or admit they might of been raped? Your call.

[Several Puffins]

that still sounds like an anecdotal argument.

i mean, these aren't 2 bit thugs we are talking about, who kill people who are just "on their turf", these are pirates who use warfare as a LIFESTYLE.

People in that culture I simply cannot see extending mercy to others in any form that isn't profitable.

For a well documented example of resistance to this particular form of nastiness, the pirate captain Zheng Shi had pirates who raped captives put to death.

In general, I'd agree with the sentiments I've seen that 1) it'll cause too much fuss for Ludeon and alienate too many people for it to be a remotely good idea in the core game, and that 2) all the other horrible things are much less commonly experienced by people than sexual assault. No-one who doesn't want this as a game feature is saying that wearing dead people as hats isn't bad, but I don't personally know anyone who has been affected by that (and nor does anyone else here). I wish I could say the same of sexual violence, but I really really can't.

[mumblemumble]

I can understand that, and that is a very valid point, sexual issues is far more home hitting than other issues. But that is where I think it could make for an amazing game, where punches aren't pulled, and things have impact.

Its like how children don't die in most movies / games, particularly not in grisly ways. This is to pull punches, to prevent trauma, but they end up being less spectacular.

Fallout 2 comes to mind, containing child murder, and I think even rape. It had some truly nasty stuff in it, and it made it all the more interesting...

it comes down to one simple question, which we must ask ourselves : Which is more important, amazing stories, or protecting emotions of the feeble?

Also, that is one example yes, but on the other hand you have rape as a weapon of war, rape gangs in struggling countries, ISIS sex slave trades (spoiler, they don't need "CONSENT", because they are sex slaves...they RAPE the girls) and other stuff.

Given all this, I find it impossible to believe rape was annihilated, as the cause of rape is one intrinsic to human nature : Conflict, in this case, conflict of desires.

[Rahjital]

I feel implementing such a thing well would be so difficult it is simply not worth it. Just how would one do it tastefully enough without washing out all the emotional impact of it? Rape is considered a special kind of evil by many, worse than even murder, and Rimworld isn't really able to convey that much emotional depth, the player's perspective is simply too distant. There's also mechanical problems with this: how do you properly show the psychological damage of rape without implementing some special system for it? How do you allow people's colonists to be the good guys who don't rape without adding some kind of a morals system? Those things would be acceptable for Dwarf Fortress, but one of the biggest draws of Rimworld is accessibility, and implementing two new mechanics for the sake of a single new feature is hard to justify.

If you want to handle rape as the very sensitive topic it is, your best bet is to make a game akin to This War of Mine, centered on the thing itself, or use it in a dark your-choices-matter RPG. Doing it in Rimworld may be possible, but there are so many other features to implement that would bring more benefit at a fraction of the cost.

[mumblemumble]

Problem is, rape is actually more vague than people want to admit.

Rape is literally anytime a person doesn't agree to sex...but in a sexually active relationship, or marriage, the damage is minimal.

but rape like the raiders would do, well...yeah, I can agree thats pretty bad, and much more traumatic.

I do think a morals / culture system would be an amazing idea, on its own merits though.

[deslona]

I would like to thank everyone on keeping such a sensitive topic on track and constructive and mature for 6 pages. I know many forums that couldn't get past page 1.

That said the discussion has moved to other touchy mechanics in the game.
Lets look at drugs in games (Rimworld, Fallout series) and such.
None of these drugs are DIRECTLY named after a real drug. *Smokeleaf* is the best example here.
There are reasons that it isn't just a copied name. Legal reasons. It may be suggested that such a real life example may encourage impressionable young minds to reproduce game mechanics in real life.
Child murder, it always irked me in Bethesda's Fallout games and Skyrim that kids couldn't die. A dragon blast to their face and they run around like little monkeys on fire. I use mods that allow kids to die.
But that isn't the issue, the issue is why a company such as Bethesda, a company that attempts to make a world open and choice filled decides to not allow children to die.
Legal reasons.

Sex workers and sex slaves are backgrounds from character generation. But they themselves don't impact on the way the game is played. Just the starting skills and work restrictions. The words/stories are just flavor text.

As a poster said before there has not been said any reason FOR having it in the game. Just because other gruesome elements (cannibalism) are in the game doesn't mean rape needs to be. Cannibalism is inherently about survival. Rape is about power. This is a survival game.

I would suggest that incorporating the mechanic of rape into the game proper may move the games classification to 'Adult'. Potentially reducing sales AND no matter the argument for it, rape isn't an essential element to play the game.

I think it is a certainty to say that rape should NOT and will NOT be in the core game.
A better discussion should be - how to make rape a worthwhile mechanic in a mod. How to implement it, use it, have NPC factions that use it. How it would impact faction relations, social relations/relationships. Whether there would be traits and moods and their duration/strength.
Whether such an act would be the result or result in a fight. Would other pawns/pets get involved in such a fight. Would there need to be a crime/justice system implemented. Would there be a counseling system that needs to be implemented?
A person that got raped would presumably suffer a great mood debuff. Would they effectively become useless? Always going berserk or wandering in a daze? Would it be possible to implement rape as a punishment for certain crimes? The list goes on and on.

I strongly urge people to drop the discussion about rape in the core game (it ain't gonna happen) and move to how [if it should] work in a mod.

[mumblemumble]

Rape isn't exclusively about power, its often times about desire for one who does not desire back.

Also, my biggest qualm is people trying to argue that rape has been eliminated from the entire universe , which is just STUPIDLY unrealisitic. I can understand rape not being a mechanic, but to say rape somehow never happens anywhere ever is just...mind numbingly dumb to assume.

As for in the core game, I kinda disagree...even if it had a tickbox filter, similar to hotline miami 2, for those who are emotionally fragile,  It could add much to stories.

[deslona]

Rape isn't exclusively about power, its often times about desire for one who does not desire back.

Also, my biggest qualm is people trying to argue that rape has been eliminated from the entire universe , which is just STUPIDLY unrealisitic. I can understand rape not being a mechanic, but to say rape somehow never happens anywhere ever is just...mind numbingly dumb to assume.

As for in the core game, I kinda disagree...even if it had a tickbox filter, similar to hotline miami 2, for those who are emotionally fragile,  It could add much to stories.

Forcing yourself upon someone who refuses you is about power. Morality and respect put aside, If you were not strong enough to take what you wanted (sex) you wouldn't do it.
Miami 2 is a very different game to Rimworld. Again the comparison has to be drawn to the core idea and that is violence (Miami) vs survival (Rimworld). I am not saying rape isn't non-existent, I agree with you. But there are other more similarly aligned games to Rimworld that do not feature rape (Dwarf-Fortress and Prison Architect). If ever there were a good game to incorporate rape into it would be PA. But they haven't. There are reasons for WHY they haven't, real world reasons.

I go back to my questions though. What would YOU do if one of your colonists raped another colonist.
The rapist now has a taken a massive hit to the social relationships with the victim (which may result in fights) and the victims friends.
The victim has a long lasting mood debuff and is always breaking down, wandering or going berserk. Effectively making the victim useless from a production pov.

Barring any justice system and no children in the game and only using the tools we the players have now. What do you do?

This is a question that needs to be answered because it is WHY we are having the discussion at all. Rape may be a powerful motivational tool. But only if it were made properly.

[mumblemumble]

Forcing yourself upon someone who refuses you is about power. Morality and respect put aside, If you were not strong enough to take what you wanted (sex) you wouldn't do it.

.. ... ... ... 

Let me apply this to 5 other random things.

If you were not strong enough to make a sandwich, you wouldn't do it.
If you were not strong enough to wipe your ass, you wouldn't do it.
If you were not strong enough to get out of bed, you wouldn't do it.
If you were not strong enough to clean your room, you wouldn't do it.
If you were not strong enough to stand up for yourself, you wouldn't do it.

Thus, by your logic, making a sandwich, wiping your ass, getting out of bed, cleaning your room, and standing up for yourself are also EQUALLY about power, if I'm understanding your logic correctly. If not, please elaborate more, because this is what im getting out of it, that exercising of power means something is ABOUT power.

....This is why I find the argument silly, its pretty much just conjecture. Just because someone exerts power to do something, doesn't mean its "about" power. I can stop someone from hurting someone, and use force to stop them, but thats not about power either, its about protecting others.

Really, "about" is vague anyway. Rape is not about just 1 thing, its about many things... we should instead ask what the cause is.

As for, if I was in a real scenario, mayor, and encountered a raped woman? (I assume woman) It really depends... Although your kinda twisting the question by saying "just the tools we have now".

If it INDEED was a traumatic, beat-down, awful rape like you imply, I would probably execute the rapist, but honestly I doubt they would be that simple all the time.

If it was honestly a man who, otherwise was useful, productive, and didn't mutilate or beat the woman, I would force a marriage and have a sentence in jail for a time, perhaps a talk with the warden with him, to ensure he will own up to the responsibility he had taken upon himself.

If it was a person raping anothers wife, well...to the chopping block.

Same sex assault, well... chopping block, or lashings, depending on the severity and damage

You are correct it would need the right tools, I agree, but this is why asking such a question, framed in such a way it counter-intuitive... adding in such things would need varying social effects, varied victim reactions, varied colonist reactions, and varied ways to go about treating it. Also saying no kids, no justice system, ect....well, these inherently would lead to a very poor modeling of rape ANYWAY...

I realize my views upset people, but again id rather embrace truth and not fear examining it...

And again, you must look at what the effects are... As much as people detest the part in the bible of women marrying rapists...there's a valid point behind it.

Women, PARTICULARLY virgins are very damaged by rape, not so much by the sex itself, but the idea that they were taken by a man, and have lost their innocence, but will also not have one to care for them.

And marriage is not a 1 sided thing, its binding for BOTH the man and woman...sure the man "gets a wife" but hes also tied down with obligation.

If we compare to other scenarios, where say, a man is straight up jailed..the woman is now "used" and is less desirable as a wife, and the man who was her first is now gone. This is almost forgotten in todays society, but simply, virgins are far more valuable as mates than non virgins..they are more likely to be faithful, are less problematic, and fit to shape you better than one who misses old lovers.

So in these contexts, especially virginity robbing rape, I think that is an applicable fix, as it minimized damage along both parties lifetime, and tries to salvage things.

But yes, when you shape the scenario like that, where rape is simply added, is a random occurrence you can do absolutely nothing about... Yeah, it looks like a dumb idea. But thats because you shape it that way.

[SterilizeAllTrolls]

I'd rather Tynan just dedicate resources to filling out factions gameplay or travel or something, rather than Alpha 17: The Redpill Update.

[mumblemumble]

nobody was insisting it be a17, or 18, and nobody was even saying en entire update needed to me made JUST for that.

Beyond that, someone isn't a troll JUST because you don't like their opinions.

Stop being divisive and aggressive, the community here is based on calm, polite discussions, and inflammatory comments like that (and names like that) really don't help.

If you do not like my opinion, this is your right, but please debate them in a civilized manner rather than making snide comments like that.

I DO agree a17 should refine what a16 started (as nice as a16 is, the huge updates means huge problems developed  ) but you are being incredibly off topic, and not really adding to the discussion.

If you would like, please, provide an argument, reasoning, and what negative effects you think would happen if these features would be added, and I will listen.

[SterilizeAllTrolls]

There's already been a ton of discussion about it and it seems like everything that needs to be said or could be said about putting it in the game has been said. The one reason above all being that it's not worth the risk of being pulled from Steam or branded Adult when a modder could easily just make it themselves at no risk to anybody.

Beyond that, it really just seems like you want to keep the discussion about rape going. Observe this alongside your long-winded posts in this and other, conveniently redpill themed threads in on-topic subforums, and I start to get the impression that you have some sort of agenda here. I really don't care if you do but I'd rather you just be honest about instead of making "technically" on-topic threads so you can post long, increasingly off-topic comments.

[mumblemumble]

Last I checked rape scenes don't get a game immediately banned, and this is for GRAPHIC scenes, which rimworld cannot have.

Yes, it would get a bit of backlash, but other games, and other media has gotten scrutiny for similar stuff and not been removed.

And you saying that everything has already been said is opinion, attempting to turn the narrative towards locking the thread because YOU do not enjoy such topics.

If you have anything else, PLEASE just PM me, I don't want this thread, or other parts of the forums to devolve into flamewars..