two issues in 16: weapons are too cheap; failure when operation on eyes == death

[koisama]

I did a brief research on the case.
Since A15 we had the following changes:
1. Ridiculous failures
2. Operations give damage to nearest body parts, and not to the whole body
3. Medicine potency change

First one just insta-kills your patient if you're unlucky and there's no way to get around it.
Second one might kill your patient by applying damage to near parts. Brain is fairly close to eyes, so probably that's your explanation.
Third one is the worst of them all, as it nerfs not only herbal, but even normal medicine below A15 herbal level (A15 herbals were 0.75, A16 normal medicine is 0.7).
Oh, and bed quality is not used for surgeries.

[LordMunchkin]

Even with a hospital bed, medicine, and a level 15 doctor, a so called "Planet-class" level of skill, I'm barely getting 50/50 good treatments. I don't even plant herbal medicine anymore because it's completely useless for anything but 15+ skilled bionic doctors WITH hospital beds. Unless the dev intends for no one to ever use herbal medicine, I think some rebalancing is in order. 

[Hieronymous Alloy]

Use herbal medicine to make real medicine and to treat animals.

Use real medicine for treating diseases.

Use glitterworld medicine for surgeries.

I have not had a surgery failure yet in A16 at all -- because I always use a skilled doctor with glitterworld medicine.

[OFWG]

I have not had a surgery failure yet in A16 at all -- because I always use a skilled doctor with glitterworld medicine.

There you go, GW medicine shouldn't be a requirement for a good doctor to have a chance at success. This supports the OP's point.

[daduhweewah]

I have used glitterworld  since posting in this thread also and have had zero mistakes. I have to say I like this. I think it makes you have to have a nicer ingredient to perform surgery.

I think everyone will like it to once you get the hang of it. Like one of the posts in here said, buy all the glitterworld med you can find (they pop up with exotic traders) forbid them in storage, and unforbid them when you perform a surgery.

I think the glitterworld medicine should cost more also, like 300-500 per but should be a  bit more abundant in the traders stock, thus you could use them for severe injuries to colonists aswell.

If anyone complains that it already costs too much, you are crazy. I have a colony with 100k silver after 4 in game years. It is not hard to build up silver. Just have a couple people making statues non stop, make as much clothing as you can, and don't make weapons to sell.

Weapons sell prices def need edited, all the other prices are pretty good, megasloth wool clothing is too cheap considering it acts as alpaca wool muffalo wool etc. These should all be about the same.

[Hieronymous Alloy]

I have not had a surgery failure yet in A16 at all -- because I always use a skilled doctor with glitterworld medicine.

There you go, GW medicine shouldn't be a requirement for a good doctor to have a chance at success. This supports the OP's point.

You have a decent chance of success without it, it's just required to guarantee success. This makes a certain amount of sense -- people die in surgery in actual hospitals all the time.

[Lightzy]

Weapons are made cheap because you can get infinite weapons from massive raids.
I've yet to play a build of rimworld where I actually built a weapon. That'd be almost pointless since you get superior sniper rifles from raids starting on like the 3rd raid.

There's no real solution I think.

You can make it so that raiders don't drop weapons but that would be very immersion breaking.

You can make it so that all dropped weapons are of really low structural integrity, which is fine but guns don't really deteriorate so much with use that I've noticed so it's not likely to make any difference

You can make guns deteriorate with use but you'd STILL be overflowing with weaponry from raiders

Hm

Dunno.
No real solution that I can think of

[Hieronymous Alloy]

gun durability effects dps so that's a useful nerf to raider weapons.

I usually do craft myself sniper rifles, charge rifles, and assault rifles once I have a high skill crafter because excellent/masterwork/legendary guns have a very large bonus to damage and accuracy.

[dearmad]

Even with a hospital bed, medicine, and a level 15 doctor, a so called "Planet-class" level of skill, I'm barely getting 50/50 good treatments. I don't even plant herbal medicine anymore because it's completely useless for anything but 15+ skilled bionic doctors WITH hospital beds. Unless the dev intends for no one to ever use herbal medicine, I think some rebalancing is in order. 

My level 11 doc has transplanted a lung, a leg, implanted a brain soother. With normal meds. A normal bed (superior) designated as hospital and not other equipment.

I think there is some selective experience remembering going on here when a favorite person dies.

I personally like the risks! I mean really... new eyes? Not simple...

And if weapons were expensive think about that- they are unlimited: generated by waves of raids... talk about a harvest.

[dearmad]

Weapons are made cheap because you can get infinite weapons from massive raids.
I've yet to play a build of rimworld where I actually built a weapon. That'd be almost pointless since you get superior sniper rifles from raids starting on like the 3rd raid.

There's no real solution I think.

You can make it so that raiders don't drop weapons but that would be very immersion breaking.

You can make it so that all dropped weapons are of really low structural integrity, which is fine but guns don't really deteriorate so much with use that I've noticed so it's not likely to make any difference

You can make guns deteriorate with use but you'd STILL be overflowing with weaponry from raiders

Hm

Dunno.
No real solution that I can think of

So... introduce ammo requirements? Loads of useless weapons, relatively cheap. And your resources go to ammunition crafting and purchasing? Ammo is sort of a currency in a lot of post apoc worlds. As long as the mechanism to load weapons and sustain a firefight isn't overly complicated.

[LordMunchkin]

My level 11 doc has transplanted a lung, a leg, implanted a brain soother. With normal meds. A normal bed (superior) designated as hospital and not other equipment.

I think there is some selective experience remembering going on here when a favorite person dies.

I personally like the risks! I mean really... new eyes? Not simple...

You like a not insignificant chance for an "expert" in medicine to kill someone while putting on an eye patch? I honestly think it's inane. Might as well add spontaneous combustion and a chance for people to choke on their food. Or hell just bring back the traitor event! Because even that would be more realistic and enjoyable than the rate of failure we're seeing amongst supposedly trained surgeons this alpha. 

[Deer87]

I must agree that the current setting is a bit... harsh.

One of my prisoners lost a leg during his escape attempt. I still wanted to recruit him, so I decided to treat him a peg leg. My lvl 12 doctor experience a minor failure during the operation... he stabbed his patient to death

[daduhweewah]

Solution for weapon pricing.

A very drastic drop in price from an unused weapon at 100% - to a weapon at 99% or lower- and very drastic price drops all the way down.

I don't think the weapons need to be priced outrageous to where you clean up raids and make a bunch of silver. BUT you want to be able to craft weapons profitably, so you can sell all your legendary weapons or all your good/superior weapons (whichever route you like to take)

I think the clothing could use a price cut once it is used also, I am getting 200-300 for a normal cloth parka with 60% on it sometimes. It almost doesn't seem completely stable in the way they are priced.

But weapons are not lucrative to make, they are way tooo expensive to buy from traders so it puts you in a spot where you are making weapons with no out if you don't want the created weapon. I had a legendary assault rifle I made and if I recall correctly it was worth 406$ to a trader, which is just garbage cause it has 7 components in it, and 60 steel (60ish) so I get a 133% markup for making a legendary weapon. (or lose money if I had bought components from pirates or exotic)

So a drastic price drop from 100% unused, to 99% (like 70%-80% drop), and for every level that prices normally change in the game, the price COULD drop at the normal rate since it had to first huge drop or it could still drop more drastically, either way. This would make it to where you can make guns, and also all raider guns would have a max of 99% on them when picked up to make them not as valuable. This would essentially be like the dead man clothing (well it would be exactly like the dead man clothing)

[Lightzy]

So... introduce ammo requirements? Loads of useless weapons, relatively cheap. And your resources go to ammunition crafting and purchasing? Ammo is sort of a currency in a lot of post apoc worlds. As long as the mechanism to load weapons and sustain a firefight isn't overly complicated.

Yeah I often suggested this to be core (there's a mod for it). It'll also affect turret spam a bit maybe.

But it's a bit confusing how it'll work. How much would ammo cost to make? 1 steel? Given that right now ur builder can make like 40 beds in a day's work, how long will it take to make a bullet?
How do you make it a non-negligible investment so that you totally circumvent the bullet rationing without it ever becoming an issue? (Kind of like with food currently)



EDIT: More suggestions:

Make damaged weapons more likely to jam, explode in your face, etc, in addition to firing slower. I'd say make a 50% integrity weapon 50% likely to jam, 25% likely to explode.
This will go towards making the suggestions in the post above (drastic price shifts for damaged weapons) more sensible and also affect the player in making weapon buying/making more desirable (or at all desirable)

[OFWG]

Solution for weapon pricing.

A very drastic drop in price from an unused weapon at 100% - to a weapon at 99% or lower- and very drastic price drops all the way down.

This here. It reflects reality, too - once you walk a gun out of the store the price drops by 1/3 before you even shoot it.