Should body types and gender actually have an effect on melee and shit?

[mumblemumble]

To be fair, asking what the dev wants is...kinda a dumb point...I mean, at the end of the day, no matter what, we CANNOT FORCE tynan to do anything, so why not voice what WE want.

Frankly, what tynan wants as far as development is kinda unimportant to me, and others, for 3 reasons.  1: I am not involved with development. I am not coding, not making features, ect. The most I do is test, and this is just bringing up issues. I make 0 decisions which effect anything

2: Tynan will do what HE wants, even if I kick / scream like an absolute child, or anything else (which im not doing anyway) So frankly voicing my opinion is irrelivant if he disagrees, its wasted time at worst, and healthy dialog in reality

3: Tynan is a big boy. He wont be hurt, or coerced by my "manipulative, redpill posts", and he won't lose sleep if I disagree with him, even if it was much worse than this. And this is assuming he disagrees at all, but we dont know.

And you saying tynan would insist these are never added : 1: is unwarrented - you don't know how he feels on this particular feature, nor if he would ever change his mind. 2: You insist its a no win, because if someone is upset, its obviously not worth it

I'm guessing you forgot the hate threads that were added with the drug update...there was several, many bad reviews, and a few refunds IIRC, but tynan never pulled the update, did he?

[Bozobub]

You're simply placing words in my mouth.  Quote, please, where I said Tynan would "insist" on anything at all, as an easy example, or where I used the words "manipulative" or "redpill" at all; we both know you won't be able to.  It IS quite revealing, however .

And Tynan added the drug system on his own, I'll note, not from somebody whining about it.  Nor is the lack of notable sexual dimorphism somehow a huge negative to the game.

This thread went way past simply asking for a minor game alteration (which is perfectly legit) a long time ago.  And you just pretty much admitted to being a troll, by the by, although I'm sure you weren't aware of it.

[Thyme]

The only reason why I haven't unsub'd from this thread yet is because I want to know how long this discussion will go on. I think it's meaningless, I mean Tynan got backlash* for some lines of code regarding gender mechanics that had way less impact ingame most replies/suggestions in this thread. I don't think he will feed that troll** and implement more of it. And cost/benefit of course.

*I don't care if it's questionable journalism or Tynans improper solution of implementing pawns behavior
**used as figure of speech. Don't feed the troll
PS: The article I refer to

[Headshotkill]

^^

Incase you're wondering how long this thread will last past this point, I predict very short.
I say 3-5 more posts, place your bets!

Regarding several backlashes from the past, I'm very pleased to see Tynan staying rigid and believing in his own vision.

[Xolotle]

liberal brainwashing

Just want to point out that this is why this topic will never be a good "discussion". Normally i would have never have even commented on this thread, and I don't care about gender politics. I understand SJW are annoying, but Idiocy transcends political ideology. People on both sides cannot talk about gender without it becoming political.

That's why i would never support it in game. If people cannot discuss it without it turning into a flamewar, then why would it be a good idea to implement into a game you're trying to sell?

[mumblemumble]

@Bozo : your post made it pretty evident as you declared it a "lose lose". for me, that would make someone insist on not doing it.  its implied

As for "redpilled manipulative", I was refering to the user "sterilizealltrolls", whom said this... who I honestly suspect is an alt account, whos it is, I honestly can't say.

@thyme : tynan did, yes... however this was not reasonable backlash, it was mass misrepresentation of the code. Theres already differences in men and women anyway which conforms to differences in reality, so I don't see the big deal. If there was another "pr nightmare", it would literally be posting pretty much the same article again.

@xol : You may be correct that no ideology is immune to idiots, but this is also assuming all ideologies have EQUAL amount of idiots, which is unrealistic.

And frankly, many of the issues where people deny reality DO stem from exactly what vamp said. Nobody has to be sat down and TOLD men and women are different growing up, they are sat down and told, REPEATEDLY the opposite, that that thinking otherwise is sexist and evil.

[pfhorrest]

@Bozo : your post made it pretty evident as you declared it a "lose lose". for me, that would make someone insist on not doing it.  its implied

As for "redpilled manipulative", I was refering to the user "sterilizealltrolls", whom said this... who I honestly suspect is an alt account, whos it is, I honestly can't say.

@thyme : tynan did, yes... however this was not reasonable backlash, it was mass misrepresentation of the code. Theres already differences in men and women anyway which conforms to differences in reality, so I don't see the big deal. If there was another "pr nightmare", it would literally be posting pretty much the same article again.

@xol : You may be corfrect that no ideology is immune to idiots, but this is also assuming all idiologies have EQUAL amount of idiots, which is unrealistic.

And frankly, many of the issues where people deny reality DO stem from exactly what vamp said. Nobody has to be sat down and TOLD men and women are different growing up, they are sat down and told, REPEATEDLY the opposite, that that thinking otherwise is sexist and evil.

I think what people mean when they accuse you of having an agenda in these posts is that you let your own personal biases and perception of wrongdoing or inadequacy in others in their failure to earnestly discuss differences between genders inform your opinion that games should fulfill that role of discussing differences between genders.

I feel like the reaction against this idea has less to do with disagreement with your views themselves, and the reality that your views represent, and more to do with the feeling that the particular game of Rimworld is not suitable for changes that reflect your views.

[Meridias]

To answer the original question: No, body types and gender should have no effect on game mechanics beyond cosmetic.

This is why the pawns are, as stated in the first three words of their description, "a baseline human". An average of body types, gender and most other factors not included in backgrounds and traits. Anything beyond that (putting numbers to genders) is just asking for trouble and, as this thread has already shown, just bringing it up causes a storm that very few games even TRY to mess with for that very reason.

[deslona]

I agree with Meridias. I cannot see how implementing this will make the game 'more fun'. I doesn't add to complexity as there is no exercise or weight gain mechanic. So the point is mute as it is something that the player cannot control directly or indirectly. It is (initially) totally reliant upon the RNG gods. And I don't think the game should move closer to RNG.

How will this mechanic make the game more "fun"? Realism or reality isn't fun all the time and there are practical/coding limits ofc.

[Thyme]

[...] @thyme : tynan did, yes... however this was not reasonable backlash [...]

a backlash is never reasonable, else it would be called constructive criticism

@Headshotkill: my post is the 6th after yours. this discussion will go on forever (unless a mod stops it), hence we're trapped in here

[mumblemumble]

@Pfhorrest : I don't necessarily think a refusal to speak about the differences in sexes means it MUST be added, I just think if people refuse to acknowlege that which is tested, retested, and retested by everyone in reality, they shouldn't be taken serious in a serious discussion. Everyone can have an opinion, but they can't be immune to being told its a stupid opinion.


@Meridias : I think you are reading way to deep into the description. saying "baseline" just mean its not genetically engineered, not mutated, and not anything super "unique". Differences in pawns still exist, just differences which are normal for the group.

For an example, andre the giant was a "human", but he was FAR from baseline. if he existed, he would be like a bear sized human, able to haul double, double melee damage, double health, and could drink like a fish and not get hurt.

But anything else from sexual dimorphism, varying heights, skin color, ect, could be included under "baseline", because a baseline for humans is actually a pretty wide line.

Also, what is an "average" in gender?  theres male and female theres no real "average" between them.

And again... ..I fail to see the shitstorm people speak of. If someone could link me why this is so atrocious, I'd appreciate it. It wasn't the RPS article, because that was like...a week or  2 long bruhaha, which is now just a sour memory.

@Deslona : you bring up an interesting point, with working out, and that would be an interesting mechanic! I don't see any reason why this couldn't be included. Also, I doubt the RNG, even without would cause such catastrophic effects. Its not like starting with 3 girls would doom your colony, it might make things slower, but I doubt it would be severe.

Another point I feel I need to bring up : we are talking about a hypothetical feature, so saying "it would work this way, and this would not work, therefor this wont work" is kinda flawwed, because we dont KNOW how it would work, as its hypothetical.  It could be added and be COMPLETELY different than we think, but we dont know.

And so saying it wont work because YOU think it would work one way, isn't the best...instead you should say, you think 1 thing might be a concern, and  propose / ask for things to address the concern

@Thyme : I wouldn't say that, if someone came up and tried to pick my pocket, me getting aggressive and calling the cops would be a VERY reasonable backlash...

I also don't see the issue with a thread, stuff is still being said (like delsonas RNG concern) So I don't think the thread should be locked QUITE yet...

[Razzoriel]

Talking on a modding perspective here: is it possible to add modifications to pawns based on their sex and their body type? I can give it a shot.

[Asrahn]

Also, I doubt the RNG, even without would cause such catastrophic effects. Its not like starting with 3 girls would doom your colony, it might make things slower, but I doubt it would be severe.

Man, yes, exactly what we need; for min-maxing to be directly associated with not wanting women in the game. Can't see how that could create a negative psychological schema.

[tocsin1990]

Man, yes, exactly what we need; for min-maxing to be directly associated with not wanting women in the game. Can't see how that could create a negative psychological schema.

Thing is, would not having women in the game from the start really be a min/max?  I mean, assuming the ideas of each gender getting a select limited number of trait bonuses (like men for mining and melee {blunt force labor}, and women for cooking and shooting {agility based labor}) wouldn't the optimal min/max starting group consist of a specific mix of men versus women?  I mean, setting a group of all women would mean that hunting starts faster, but mining out the mountain takes longer, and all men means that the food isn't cooked as fast, and the hunting is a little bit messier.

Personally, I think adding gender traits could add a lot of depth to the game, it just needs to be balanced correctly, which, based on the game so far, Tynan seems like an expert at.

[pfhorrest]

Man, yes, exactly what we need; for min-maxing to be directly associated with not wanting women in the game. Can't see how that could create a negative psychological schema.

Thing is, would not having women in the game from the start really be a min/max?  I mean, assuming the ideas of each gender getting a select limited number of trait bonuses (like men for mining and melee {blunt force labor}, and women for cooking and shooting {agility based labor}) wouldn't the optimal min/max starting group consist of a specific mix of men versus women?  I mean, setting a group of all women would mean that hunting starts faster, but mining out the mountain takes longer, and all men means that the food isn't cooked as fast, and the hunting is a little bit messier.

Personally, I think adding gender traits could add a lot of depth to the game, it just needs to be balanced correctly, which, based on the game so far, Tynan seems like an expert at.

Crafting and cooking are important enough to the survival of a colony that if such a thing were implemented into the game as it stands today, it might be reasonably balanced. Food poisoning can easily cause a colonist death in the event of a raid, manhunter pack or mass animal insanity. Having high quality weapons and armor are just as important, if not more important, than high shooting skill for the outcomes of raids.