96% success chance doctor failing five out of six operations

[DeathWeasel]

Whether bionics is end game or not is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Even installing peg legs or dentures is fatal more often than not.

[Grishnerf]

losing a leg early game in a crashlanded Scenario is FATAL and should be punished.why even lose the leg in the fiorst place? pegleg trick?

[Aiven]

Don't seem to harsh in my eyes. I mean, I lost a few guys, but that's realistic. Operating people should be dangerous, especially in a colony, with let's face it, limited medical resources, all things considered.

[skullywag]

Bionics isnt even what we are discussing here. Low level surgeries require glitterworld to have any chance of success. I only mentioned it as the name of my test i didnt even get to bionics. Simply removing a jaw resulting in 4 decapitations. The failures are crazy, but thats another issue. For my doc to do it 4 times due to failing the chance check is crazy and to be clear ive since tried it again with the same result, so im either unlucky as hell or this just aint worth the time. No bother for me ill just mod it to suit my tastes.

[Zhentar]

That glitterworld medicine is required to 100% guaranteed successfully install bionics, I am perfectly okay with. What I'm not so okay with is that installing a peg leg with herbal medicine is more likely to kill the pawn than be successful. Or that a major failure when you aren't replacing a healthy limb is 100% guaranteed death (bizarrely, replacing healthy limbs is much safer, because the limb can absorb some of the damage without killing the pawn). Even minor failures have a relatively high risk of lethality.

Don't seem to harsh in my eyes. I mean, I lost a few guys, but that's realistic. Operating people should be dangerous, especially in a colony, with let's face it, limited medical resources, all things considered.

Yes, installing a peg leg is an advanced medical procedure with a significant risk of death even in modern medical facilities.

[skullywag]

Id even be happy with surgery succes but high chance for infection upon success. That seems more feasible in my eyes.

[fireball626]

My main issue with the surgery system as a whole is that the actual success chance is hidden. It is not apparent to the player what the actual success chance is for a given surgery. How does that chance change based on the type of medicine you use, or the lighting of the area, or the cleanliness of the hospital? That is hidden from the player and that is bad.

[Grishnerf]

@skullywag
ok now i understand you and the Problem with early game surgeries. and you are right.
surgeries would most probably result in death.

i'm just super careful in combat and hunting in General to not get into such Situation.
in my last few games i nearly never lost a limb or anything in early game. (except the usual suspects [few fingers/toes])
i can remember one time, 1 pawn with a missing leg was lying for about 2-3 seasons in bed before i could buy a glittermed of a orbital Trader to install a bionic leg.
it felt really good after all this time to see him hauling like a champ again.


but for that early game surgery stuff (pegleg etc)
i would Support the idea that failed surgeries dont destroy the items in the process AND give severe infections instead of injuries.

[TimTumm]

I see several people complaining than surgery needs to be rebalanced, and one person fighting tooth and nail to explain it as good.  The problem is you can't keep saying bionics needs glitter meds.  First of all, glitter meds are not guaranteed (I have not seen any in 1.5 years).  Second, I can't install a prosthetic hand to my colonist without stabbing him 3-5 times in the chest and killing him 3/4 times.  This is not normal/balanced/good.  Please stop the false justification.

[Grishnerf]

you see them as a given. i see them as a Bonus with high risk until mid/lategame.

[XeoNovaDan]

I'm slowly working on a mod to address this (sorry if this is seen as self-promotion)

It probably could be done very quickly, but watching videos and the fact I'm generally not the industrious + very neurotic type will mean it'll probably take much longer than it should

[Hieronymous Alloy]

Id even be happy with surgery succes but high chance for infection upon success. That seems more feasible in my eyes.

Yeah, that seems like it would be a good tweak. Have surgery use the listed success chance, IE., Low chance of failure with decent skill, but have a chance of post surgical infection that's like 60/30/0 depending on use of herbal / standard / glitterworld meds.

It would also make sense to make it easier to install peg legs. The game already tracks surgical difficulty, just removing a carcinoma is the only surgery with a difficulty modifier.

[snoodog]

That would probably make the system even harder unless you could cheese the disease prevention meds.

The biggest problem IMO is that you cant see success odds. That should be more obviously displayed (A mod would be great for that). Ideally success should be higher too but knowing the odds is the first step.

Id really like to see A17 have re-balanced medicine, and self self bandage. Thats currently the most annoying system in the game, and for me the one that detracts most from gameplay.

[XeoNovaDan]

Success chance is effectively the surgeon's base surgery success chance multiplied by the medical potency of the medicine they're using.

Breakdown

For example, a perfectly healthy level 10 doctor has a 93% chance of success before factoring in medicine. Say he/she uses ordinary medicine; that has a medical potency of 0.7. The surgeon's surgery success chance is now a much less attractive 65.1% (although not explicitly displayed), and that's in a clean, but not sterile room.

Now to move onto how room cleanliness affects surgery: A clean room is neutral in terms of surgery success chance (i.e. it has a surgery success chance factor of 1.00). For every 0.2 cleanliness, the factor is changed by 0.01, or 1%. This effectively means that for every 0.2 cleanliness below 0 the room is, surgery success chance is dropped by 1% - and conversely chances increase by 1% for every 0.2 cleanliness above 0 the room is. This means that a fully sterile room improves surgery success chance by a mere 3% proportionate to what it is.

So this is effectively the formula when calculating room cleanliness surgery success chance factor:
S = 1+((C/0.2)/100)

Where S is the surgery success chance factor, and C is room cleanliness (I don't know how to do that fancy, proper formula formatting thing)

So these 3 rooms would affect the doctor's surgery success chance in the following ways...
A room with Wood Flooring (for example) - 0 cleanliness: Surgery success chance will remain at 65.1%
A room with Sterile Tiles - 0.6 cleanliness: Surgery success chance will be 67.053% (65.1 * 1.03)
A room with Dirt or Sand flooring - -1 cleanliness: Surgery success chance will be 61.845% (65.1 * 0.95)

TL;DR

Conclusion: The actual surgery success chance can therefore be calculated using the following formula...
S = (D*M)*(1+((C/0.2)/100))

Where S is overall surgery success chance, D is the doctor's base surgery success chance, M is medical potency of medicine used, and C is room cleanliness

You're welcome

Maybe I got a little carried away?

[O Negative]

Thank you for supplying the formula, good sir!

Isn't there a factor for recipes which effect surgery success chance, also?

<surgerySuccessChanceFactor>0.6</surgerySuccessChanceFactor> is the only example I could find in the core game, and it's found within the ExciseCarcinoma recipe.

Would that just get multiplied by S, or one of the other variables in your equation? I'm curious, and too lazy to look it up myself