Last updates push the player to "trick" the game

[Daguest]

Since a few updates, I've noticed several changes have slowly pushed myself (and others by reading reddit/forums) to "'trick" the game, in a very videogame fashion.

Example : striping a downed raiders so you don't have the "dead man cloth" penalty. Also, killing him on the ground so you're not annoyed by the whole "kill a prisoner". Or let a drop pod pawn die because you don't want him to join. Avoiding convent child/sheriff like the plague, kill pessimist/too smart on sight, and since the drugs update, chemical fascination. Or the notorious "infestation spawn in the middle of your barn and kill all your animals, lol funny right ?", which is worth a topic by itself.



Now, I'd like some changes so I'm not feeling "forced" to do something unrealistic and very "gamey" to avoid something else. Dead man clothing is stupid, most of the clothes are tattered and useless anyway (representing the "full of bullet holes"). Infestations needs some work. Auto-join pawn on rescue need a player input (this guy want to join, do you accept ?). Bad traits need an incentive to have them (too smart for example can be valuable, chemical fascination, pyromaniac, pessimist ? Not so much). The "can't do dumb labor" need some rework to, because I feel like that's half the pawns.

[swaggeringcuban]

agree, though it's difficult to make games harder without random events or dumb handicaps without improving AI.  And improving AI is one of the more difficult things to do, especially when you don't have a budget and a team of programmers.

[Daguest]

I'm more concerned about the "ridiculousness" of the situation than difficulty. Since Rimworld is made to be a story generator, let's consider this bit of story :
"Today we were attacked by raiders. We were able to chase them off, and one of them was badly wounded. Thankfully, we were able to remove his clothing before he died. Then Engie cut him to death because our doctor said he didn't want to install peg leg for training, since he already had to heal Jerbear and Table who fought each other over an insult, and his experience was capped for the day. I'm glad Engie killed him crudely while he was on the ground, because if we had to bring him back to execute properly, I would have been really angry by how we treat our prisoners"

That's unrealistic, ridiculous, and yet that's the best, easiest and more common way to handle post raids ATM.

[BugPowderDust]

Agreed, the dead man's clothes debuff was completely unnecessary and unwelcome. Like they'd be bothered about wearing an armour vest that belonged to a guy they killed once. If we assume they can wash clothes, this is a moot point. If they can't wash clothes, this is even less of an issue as the dead man's clothes may be cleaner than theirs!!

[swaggeringcuban]

I'm more concerned about the "ridiculousness" of the situation than difficulty. Since Rimworld is made to be a story generator, let's consider this bit of story :
"Today we were attacked by raiders. We were able to chase them off, and one of them was badly wounded. Thankfully, we were able to remove his clothing before he died. Then Engie cut him to death because our doctor said he didn't want to install peg leg for training, since he already had to heal Jerbear and Table who fought each other over an insult, and his experience was capped for the day. I'm glad Engie killed him crudely while he was on the ground, because if we had to bring him back to execute properly, I would have been really angry by how we treat our prisoners"

That's unrealistic, ridiculous, and yet that's the best, easiest and more common way to handle post raids ATM.

Please do some more of these diaries.  They're pretty funny

[dv]

Meh. I think there should be a mood debuff for dead peoples' clothes. I've certainly inherited enough of them and been less than thrilled about it. (Or maybe have some "squeamish" pawns simply refuse to wear it.)

But that's probably hard to model. And the game engine probably isn't keeping track of whether somebody who used to be wearing a particular item is dead or not. So this mechanic is as close as we can come right now. Maybe it'll be fleshed out later. Maybe not.

Now, some people figured out a workaround (stripping dying enemy pawns) which requires them to be a little sadistic and craps all over the metagame. So? Every game system has edge cases and holes in its logic. If the story's so important to you, don't do it.

[Hieronymous Alloy]

Personally I'd like to see the "dead man's clothes" debuff just replaced by a huge hit to durability if someone dies while wearing a given thing.

[SilentP]

Dead man's clothes is there more to steer players towards tailoring early in the game.  I think it also serves as a method to reduce early game cash flow.  I personally would not object to a washing machine and mending station that would allow pawns to rework the dead man's clothes into something useful.

Infestations can be troublesome.  The easiest solution is to not build under a mountain.  Again, the infestation mechanic is there to provide challenge for mountain bases that are typically impervious to raiders and other hazards.  I suppose it would be better if you stumbled upon a hive buried in the mountain than the hive randomly appearing in your bedroom.

Adding a "squeamish" trait would be interesting.  Pawns with that trait would get sick during combat, mood debuffs from butchering animals, etc.

I think chemical interest / fascination is working well.  I don't have issues with pawns using luciferm, flake & yayo because I keep a hefty stock of smoke leaf on hand along with good sources of entertainment.  It's an easy way to manage the pawns without having to "trick" them.

[Grishnerf]

wearing dead mans Cloth, lol
craft your own stuff, much better and better to sell anyway.
i dont get the People that Strip 20 tribals and collect 30 items to sell for 300 silver lul.
i just craft 1 alpaca wool chair in 5 seconds to sell for 1000 silver.

and even it you Strip the clothes from living pawns before you kill them, the items still have lost durability etc-
no worth at all.
wearing it? lol
i wont even sell it, all gets burned. <80% durability <superior

[Anomaly]

AI is difficult to program but the more time I spend with the game, the more I think we need an update that focuses on nothing but AI

I've been pulled out of the game too many times when colonists act so far out of line with human behavior that its impossible to ignore. Colonists go to bed when their rooms are being consumed by fire, Trade caravans die in poison clouds or to maddened animals when they could have just come inside my walls.  Survivors with no place to go and no chance of survival march to their deaths in the wilderness rather than ask for a place to stay.

The game as it stands is a great start but I don't think it will ever feel complete until the pawns can enough like real people for me to care about them.

Grishnerf - your solution works for late game but not so much for earlier game or starts without a decent crafting stat. It doesn't excuse the absurdity of the dead cloths debuff either.

[daduhweewah]

I think the dead mans clothing is absolutely perfect, just consider it ruined clothing from the fight, and the dead man is just the name for the ruined clothing.

You can make crazy amounts of silver mass producing clothing in the game right now, having clothing be valuable from raids would just make it insanely easy to make silver. They redid the pricing, so they had to do something about all the clothes from the dead raiders.

Weapons need repriced though.You can not even break even on making weapons unless you make legendary every time or masterwork just about breaks you even.

[Grishnerf]

Grishnerf - your solution works for late game but not so much for earlier game or starts without a decent crafting stat. It doesn't excuse the absurdity of the dead cloths debuff either.

yes in early game you will equip some dead mans items cause you have none crafted yourself YET, but that shifts quickly.
it is better this way.
before it made crafting quite obsolete.


and the dead mans debuff is not absurd.

[dosemeter]

Since tattered apparel already existed, maybe eliminate the dead man's apparel debuff and instead
tweak the damage modifiers to clothing based on how someone is killed.
I don't know how this is handled currently, (number of hits/weapon used?) but clothing worn by someone killed by a club should have minimal damage compared to a spear or bullets that should show significantly more damage.  It could also force a decision:  "Do I shoot this guy or club him because I need that parka?!"

Secondly, any apparel that is below 30% should be deemed unwearable.
It should not be able to be sold or worn, only incinerated. 

[JuicyPVP]

Secondly, any apparel that is below 30% should be deemed unwearable.
It should not be able to be sold or worn, only incinerated.

This creates useless items that slow gameplay and take computer resources for literally no reason.

[DeathWeasel]

Another way the player is encouraged to trick the game is with mechanoid raids. Since scythers and centipedes have such a huge difference in move speeds, it encourages the player to build big walls to ensure any raiders have to walk a long distance before getting to the actual defenses. Scythers run forth ahead of the centipedes and are dead long before the centipedes arrive. I've actually had times where I undrafted everyone for a few hours between waves.

Since centipedes are so tough and scythers so squishy, they should stay behind the centipedes. Whenever scythers show up for a raid they should search for a nearby centipede and "link" with it, staying always within a certain distance until combat starts. Mechanoids raids would actually be a threat with even some basic changes to their behavior. Instead it is way too easy to game the system.